[SmokingJoe]

Everything to do with 1938 Chamberlain in Munich if we abandon Ukraine to its fate as Chamberlain did to Czechoslovakia.

Tell that to the Europeans. Let them defend and take care of themselves for a change.

xactly right — we helped out the Brits for exactly the same reasons we now help the Ukes

Don't even think of comparing Ukraine to Britain.
We've had strong relationship with Britain for hundreds of years.
Britain was the mother country of America. We speak English and our judiciary, goverment, laws etc are based on the British ones.
We have no historical relationship with Ukraine.

We will certainly burn in h*ll — in this world as well as the next — if we let the naked aggressions of madman Putin & others succeed and feed on their past successes to launch yet more aggressions.

They have to be stopped — somewhere, sometime, somehow, or the next ones will be bigger and harder to stop.

Nobody's stopping the hapless Europeans from “saving” Ukraine if they can.
They can go ahead and save Ukraine if they want, JUST NOT AT OUR EXPENSE!

That's the lesson of history.
Learn it or die.

What history do you have of a nuclear war between the world's # 1 and # 2 nuclear powers?

[BroJoeK]

SmokingJoe: "Tell that to the Europeans.
Let them defend and take care of themselves for a change."

N.A.T.O. makes us part of Europe, the size of our contributions makes us the leader.
If we walk away from Ukraine & Europe after promising support, then our skedaddle from Afghanistan will seem like child's play in a sandbox compared to the disaster we'll leave in Europe.

It would not be good.

SmokingJoe: "Don't even think of comparing Ukraine to Britain.
We've had strong relationship with Britain for hundreds of years.
Britain was the mother country of America. We speak English and our judiciary, goverment, laws etc are based on the British ones.
We have no historical relationship with Ukraine."

"You know nothing, Jon Snow!"
We fought two major wars against the Brits -- they burned down Washington, DC!
Sure, you may think that's a great thing, all to the Brits credit!!
But the truth is God Himself thought enough of us in those days to send a hurricane to put out the fires the Brits had set in DC.

Plus, a lot wealthy Brits favored the Confederacy in the Civil War -- did what they could to support the South, would have been happy to see Confederates win.
So they were not always our friends, and when we went into the First World War, it wasn't so much to support the Brits, whom we still didn't much like, as to support the French, whom we loved -- "Layfayette, we are here!"

Our promises to Ukraine began with the 1994 Budapest Memorandum.
Unlike Britain, we've never fought a war against Ukraine.

SmokingJoe: "Nobody's stopping the hapless Europeans from “saving” Ukraine if they can.
They can go ahead and save Ukraine if they want, JUST NOT AT OUR EXPENSE!"

We (Obama & Biden) are as responsible as any for madman Putin's invasions.
Our pathetic weakness in Afghanistan provoked Putin.
We will not like the results if we don't help stop him.

SmokingJoe: "What history do you have of a nuclear war between the world's # 1 and # 2 nuclear powers?"

I served in Germany during the Cold War, while madman Putin was still a student at Leningrad University.
Soviets threatened us with nukes and massive tank armies.
We stood strong, and they never moved beyond their post war borders.
The name of our doctrine was MAD. It still is.