Trump's yearslong crusade against Ukraine has finally come home to roost as Republicans call for abandoning Kyiv

Insider ^ | 10/20/22 | John Haltiwanget

[hardspunned]

In a phone call with Ukraine's president this month, US President Joe Biden pledged continued solidarity with Ukraine as it battles Russia's military invasion and illegal annexation of Ukrainian territory.

But that level of support could be in jeopardy if the GOP gains control of the House of Representatives in this year's midterm elections.

The warning signs have been building for months.

In April, 10 House Republicans voted against a bill allowing the Biden administration to more easily lend military equipment to Ukraine. The following month, 57 House Republicans voted "no" on a nearly $40 billion aid package for Ukraine. Both measures ultimately passed the chamber.

[tlozo]

Yes, it takes down our enemy.

[x]

Business Insider is a left-wing propaganda site.

Why are you posting this here?

Trump gave military aid to Ukraine, and Putin waited until Biden took over to invade.

[willfulknowledge]

Will you say that after Russia invades the Baltic states, Poland, Moldova and, Germany becomes a satellite of Russia (which Merkel was determined to allow)? That is what will happen if Ukraine falls.

[A strike]

“Another word for “foreign entanglements” is “allies”.”

Not exactly. While there is no definition of foreign entanglements, imo within the context of what Washington meant that would be overinvolvement if foreign situations, not avoidance of making allies for common purpose.

[hardspunned]

Oh, so blowing $500M a day on this DC swamp boondoggle is your interpretation of MAGA? Fighting a proxy war while walking a nuclear tightrope with the regime warmongers in DC in charge is MAGA? Waging a proxy war that is heading towards WWIII with a country that NEVER attacked us or NATO is MAGA? Waging a proxy war when we have no treaty obligation requiring our action is MAGA? Trump, supporting the proxy war of the exact same corrupt DC and Kiev warmongers who impeached him is MAGA? And why did they impeach him? Trump was impeached for turning over the rock these very same DC/Kiev oligarchs were conducting their country corrupting business under. You know zip about MAGA. Why are you complaining about me posting an anti warmongering, anti Obama/Biden regime point of view?

[A strike]

Why is Russia our enemy ?

[SmokingJoe]

Who on this planet is stupid enough to let Russians run roughshod over their smaller neighbors?

We are not letting Russia “run roughshod” over anybody.
Russia and Ukraine have been fighting wars long before America existed.
The corrupt, sleazy Zelensky should take care of his own mess without draging us into it.

[MeganC]

If anyone ever threatens your freedom please don’t ask me for any help. I already don’t care.

[MeganC]

You lost me at the profanity.

[crz]

Not really concerned over anyone threatening MY freedom, except for people like you.

Heaven help you if you try.

[MeganC]

If your freedom was threatened do you expect Putin to help you like you help him?

[crz]

Do you project much?

[crz]

“With potentially hundreds of thousands of people dying, we must demand the immediate negotiation of the peaceful end to the war in Ukraine, or we will end up in World War III and there will be nothing left of our planet all because stupid people didn’t have a clue,” Trump told supporters Saturday”

Since you were a democrat, and you supported Cruz this most likely does not make any effect upon you at all.

Once a democrat, always a back stabber.

[BroJoeK]

BJK: “Another word for 'foreign entanglements' is 'allies'."

A strike: "Not exactly.
While there is no definition of foreign entanglements, imo within the context of what Washington meant that would be overinvolvement if foreign situations, not avoidance of making allies for common purpose."

I read your words here to mean the following: if you like them, they are our "allies", but if you don't much like them, then they are "foreign entanglements", right?

Some people here argue that Ukrainians, by their nature, are inherently corrupt -- not just a few leaders, but the entire population is corrupt, they claim.
That's why we have to let the Russians run over, repress and rule Ukrainians, because, Russians, dontcha know, Russians under Putin are now all conservative Christians and that's why Russians should rule or exterminate as many Ukrainians as possible.

I've heard this argument, basically, from some very smart people who should know much better {ahem... Tucker Carlson}.

Need I say it? That argument is utterly insane, a disgrace to anyone who makes it.

[Wallace T.]

When our southern border has been secured with a border wall and effective policing to prevent the invasion of illegal immigrants and narcotics, then we can talk about supporting Ukraine. Observing Russian poor performance in their invasion of that country, it does not appear that Putin’s military is any real threat to the NATO countries.

[tlozo]

Why is Russia our enemy ?

Because Putin need an external 'threatening enemy' to unite his people and justify his autocratic rule.

[tlozo]

When our southern border has been secured with a border wall and effective policing to prevent the invasion of illegal immigrants and narcotics, then we can talk about supporting Ukraine.

Biden did not secure our southern border before Putin's invasion of Ukraine and when this war ends, I'm sure he will continue not enforcing our laws. Sending weapons to Ukraine, has nothing to do with our border, or crime, or education, etc.

[BroJoeK]

hardspunned to x: "Oh, so blowing $500M a day on this DC swamp boondoggle is your interpretation of MAGA? "

Well... first, depending on how you figure it, the average is about half that, and only half of our total aid is direct military.
The rest is basically humanitarian.

Second, historically speaking, Ukraine is a redux of 1938 Czechoslovakia / Munich, where British PM Neville Chamberlain sought "peace in our time", but instead only encouraged madman Hitler's aggressive intentions.

Today, like any genuine Democrat, madman Putin claims it's Ukrainian Nazis who are to blame, when in fact, madman Putin's arguments and logic are identical to Hitler's in 1938.

Sadly, the world is chock-full of two-bit tin-horn Hitler wannabes (i.e., Xi) watching carefully to see if madman Putin succeeds and learning lessons for their own future aggressions.

That's why Putin must fail.

hardspunned to x: "Fighting a proxy war while walking a nuclear tightrope with the regime warmongers in DC in charge is MAGA?
Waging a proxy war that is heading towards WWIII with a country that NEVER attacked us or NATO is MAGA?
Waging a proxy war when we have no treaty obligation requiring our action is MAGA? "

Sure, there's no doubt that we have war in Ukraine because Biden is weak and stupid -- unlike Trump whose strength & genius deterred foreign aggressors, Biden's weakness & stupidity provokes them.
Regardless of that, the question remains: will we demonstrate yet more abject weakness by rolling over to reward Russian aggression, or will we do what's necessary to defeat it?
Ukraine today is the direct result of Biden's pathetic skedaddle from Afghanistan.
Every new defeat for us makes yet more aggressions by Putin-like madmen that much more certain and more costly, in blood & treasure, to stop.

Defeat and withdrawal are habit forming, addictive and hugely self destructive.
Once we start down that road it becomes increasingly costly to stop, much less reverse.

That is the lesson of history.
Learn it or die.

hardspunned to x: "Trump was impeached for turning over the rock these very same DC/Kiev oligarchs were conducting their country corrupting business under.
You know zip about MAGA.
Why are you complaining about me posting an anti warmongering, anti Obama/Biden regime point of view?"

Donald Trump well understands that only our strength prevents war and weakness provokes war.
Trump will first & foremost restore our military preeminence.
Then he will seek a negotiated peace based on our strength, not on our weakness & failures.

In the meantime, madman Putin must not succeed, period.

[BroJoeK]

SmokingJoe: "We are not letting Russia “run roughshod” over anybody.
Russia and Ukraine have been fighting wars long before America existed."

That's a lie.
Russians have always tried, and usually succeeded, to conquer, rule, oppress and/or exterminate Ukrainians.
Whenever possible, Ukrainians have fought for their independence.
In 1991 Russia recognized Ukrainian independence and borders, including Crimea.

Now, true to form, madman Putin wants to again conquer & exterminate as much of Ukraine as he can.
Putin's success or failure will help determine how many other two-bit tin-pot dictators act out their own fantasies of conquest & rule.

Every time we lose it makes the next battle that much harder to win -- basic lesson of history.

SmokingJoe: "The corrupt, sleazy Zelensky should take care of his own mess without draging us into it."

Regardless of "corrupt", Zelensky never threatened or invaded Russia, and that's what matters.
If madman Putin's naked aggression succeeds in Ukraine, expect lots more of it from Putin and other two-bit tin-pot dictators around the world.

Every defeat makes the next one that much more difficult & costly to win.

Learn the lessons of history or die.

[hardspunned]

With Trump, Putin was assured the NATO crazy talk in Ukraine would go nowhere. Putin also realized the danger the Obama/Uke/US DS alliance was to Trump, hell they’d already impeached him once. Russia’s western border was secured from the creeping hegemony of NATO with Trump. Putin also realized Trump would drown him and the Russian economy with cheap Bakken oil if he tried a move like this.
It’s pretty much the same with the Chinese. Trump had China by the economic short hairs and was about to put a MAGA death gripe on the Chinese economy. That’s why they and their western allies unleashed the bio attack. Trump’s retribution would have been crushing.
Also, as far as the money we’ve wasted in this quagmire. I don’t consider paying Uke bureaucrat salaries and retirement humanitarian. That $500M a day was through the end of August and amounted to the money approved by congress. It does not include the tens of billions in dark money or the billions per month in additional expenses the military is paying for sealift, airlift, the whole range of expenses when you redeploy your entire force structure in preparation for WWIII.
As I said when Trump was deposed, it is a tragedy for America, it is a catastrophe for the rest of the world. Events bear me out.