Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

How a Simple Ratio Came to Influence Military Strategy Russia may have placed too much faith in ‘force ratios’ in its invasion of Ukraine
WSJ ^ | May 13, 2022 | Josh Zumbrun

Posted on 05/13/2022 7:34:55 PM PDT by lump in the melting pot

Early in Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, it wasn’t just Moscow that believed its offensive could succeed quickly. In February, even U.S. officials warned Kyiv could fall in days.

Russians had numbers on their side, or more precisely a number: the 3:1 rule, the ratio by which attackers must outnumber defenders in order to prevail. It is one of several “force ratios” popular in military strategy. Russia, it seemed, could amass that advantage.

(Excerpt) Read more at wsj.com ...


TOPICS: Russia
KEYWORDS: 1allyourazovstal; 2arebelongtoruss; 3dreamon; 4happywarriors; cannonsusfodderus; joshzumbrun; meatsbackonthemenu; putin; putinswar; ukiecannonfodder; ukrainewar; war
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-29 next last
Comment #1 Removed by Moderator

To: lump in the melting pot

This goes beyond force ratio results. Something or perhaps several things have managed to reduce incentive to win, the value of cohesiveness and teamwork, the importance of communication between all levels of their military.
The ongoing need to maintain, update or replace certain equipment within a reasonable time period.

All very large national military forces have much the same basic needs. A big annual budget does not mean the money will go everywhere it’s most needed. Cronyism, competitive attitudes against other departments, grudge holding and plain old stubborness are always part of the picture.


2 posted on 05/13/2022 7:50:09 PM PDT by lee martell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lee martell

And in the russian case, have you seen the fuel, docking fees, maintenance and crew payroll bills for a 120-meter yacht lately?!? That money has to come from somewhere...


3 posted on 05/13/2022 7:54:39 PM PDT by lump in the melting pot
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lee martell
One thing wins wars. Not force ratios. Not technology. Not strategic positions. Not economic superiority. One thing, and one thing only.

Will.

4 posted on 05/13/2022 7:55:12 PM PDT by fhayek
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot

“The science is settled” comes to mind.


5 posted on 05/13/2022 7:57:34 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Affirmative action is systemic/institutional racism/sexism targeting straight, white males.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot

Why did the Russians divide their invasion into four main groups? They should have known that it was not going to be a repeat of 2014 where they seized Crimea without any resistance. Crimea was Russian so it was never really Ukranian. But Kyiv is Ukranian so why would the Russians seize Kyiv in a cakewalk?


6 posted on 05/13/2022 7:57:42 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot

full link

https://archive.ph/0QcMK


7 posted on 05/13/2022 8:06:15 PM PDT by catnipman (In a post-covid world, ALL "science" is now political science: stolen elections have consequences)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican

False sense of superiority b/c very few countries have dared to directly challenge Russia since WW2. Plus a tendency to believe their own propaganda. North America has a similar attitude, or we did, until Uncle Joe took the wheel.


8 posted on 05/13/2022 8:06:37 PM PDT by lee martell
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot

When the attacked know the landscape better than the attackers, the ratios go out the door.

When the attacked have much bigger reasons to defend, than the attackers have for invading, the ratios go out the window.

When the attacker doesn’t have the same will to win as the attacked, the ratios go down the krapper.

When the attacker doesn’t have everything he needs to keep up the fight in a foreign land, the favorable ratios are nothing but bad statistics.

When the attacker doesn’t have good reasons for attacking, then, he’s already lost or will sooner or later lose.


9 posted on 05/13/2022 8:07:38 PM PDT by adorno
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lee martell
False sense of superiority b/c very few countries have dared to directly challenge Russia since WW2. Plus a tendency to believe their own propaganda. North America has a similar attitude, or we did, until Uncle Joe took the wheel.

True. We're a lot more humble now. Especially with the Fall of Kabul. We needed to withdraw from Afghanistan. But Senile Joe botched the evacuation.

10 posted on 05/13/2022 8:08:54 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: MinorityRepublican

The attack on Kyiv was a diversion.

To defend the national capital, the Ukrainians had to leave the Black Sea region with less defense.


11 posted on 05/13/2022 8:09:34 PM PDT by Brian Griffin
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: lee martell

Adventurism beyond your borders vs. defending the homeland. Russians are good at homeland defense, not so good projecting power outside their borders.


12 posted on 05/13/2022 8:15:09 PM PDT by ProtectOurFreedom (Wanting to make America great isn’t an insult unless you’re trying to make it worse! ULTRAMAGA!!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot
It seems somebody didn't take force multipliers into account.

In military science, force multiplication or a force multiplier is a factor or a combination of factors that gives personnel or weapons (or other hardware) the ability to accomplish greater feats than without it. The expected size increase required to have the same effectiveness without that advantage is the multiplication factor. For example, if a technology like GPS enables a force to accomplish the same results as a force five times as large without GPS, then the multiplier is five. Such estimates are used to justify the investment for force multipliers.

13 posted on 05/13/2022 8:18:40 PM PDT by seowulf (Civilization begins with order, grows with liberty, and dies with chaos...Will Durant)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot
"Russians had numbers on their side, or more precisely a number: the 3:1 rule, ..."

Owing to the range and lethality of modern weaponry, that number long since has been upped to 6:1.

Which why I'm not complaining about the linked article being behind a pay wall. If that's all they've got, I'm glad not to have wasted any more time.

14 posted on 05/13/2022 8:25:50 PM PDT by Paal Gulli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brian Griffin
The attack on Kyiv was a diversion.

No. If that was the case, Russia would simply mass in Belarus, threatening to attack Kyiv near Chernobyl while attacking on three others fronts. That would tie down the bulk of the Ukrainian military in Kiev while not wasting Russian military in the effort.

Putin went all in and failed. He used the same playbook where the Soviets was able to decapitate the Afghan government in Kabul back in 1979.

15 posted on 05/13/2022 8:28:57 PM PDT by MinorityRepublican
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot

A 3 to 1 force ratio means nothing when you’re only sporting a 1 to 3 brains ratio.


16 posted on 05/13/2022 8:28:59 PM PDT by LibWhacker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: lee martell

They thought the invasion would go much like Gulf War 2. Shock and Awe, decapitation strike, maneuver warfare and combined arms. None of it worked well. This was supposed to be Russia’s coming out party as a “Great Power”, but they found out all of these things take massive amounts of planning, training and money. They didn’t know what they didn’t know. So now they go back to what they know, and it’s a grind.


17 posted on 05/13/2022 9:15:44 PM PDT by ETCM
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: fhayek

Good lord Hitler believed that in the nth degree! All the will in the world means squat if u don’t have the resources to utilize it.


18 posted on 05/13/2022 9:29:04 PM PDT by FreshPrince
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: lump in the melting pot
The Russian military planning was limited to 150,000 to 200,000 personnel because that was their logistical limit, versus the Ukrainian armed forces 250,000 personnel. That's no where near 3:1. The Russian planning took the phrase "overly optimistic" to extremes. Tyler Rogoway spelled this out in "Russia Has Already Lost":

"Russia massively miscalculated a number of critical tactical realities. These include the Ukrainian people's cohesiveness and willingness to fight, the bravery of Ukraine's political leadership, its air defenses' abilities and knack for survival, and NATO and the European Union's resolve.

What's worse, Russia severely overestimated its own capabilities. These included the effectiveness of its own air force, the required quantity and reliability of its standoff weaponry, the quality and resolve of its ground forces, and especially the logistics necessary to support them beyond a single opening blitz. Even the Russian military's ability to deploy realistic planning and effective command and control seemed to disintegrate just days into the invasion. There still appears to be little integration or deconfliction between various field commanders and no single commander leading the war effort."

Putin was told that Ukrainian generals were bought off, their forces would collapse, the Russian army was ready to fight and would be greeted as liberators. Then the invasion started and the cold light of day happened. Whether or not the Kremlin is in the denial or bargaining stage of death and dying remains to be determined.

Russia managed to get everything opposite from reality.

Even if Russia used the 3-to-1 and other ratios, Ukraine introduced their own twist on those formulas. Russian forces have taken three and a half times as many military casualties as Ukraine for two months. This does not count all the civilian casualties or destroyed cities, all of which is unifying Europe for Ukraine and against Russia.

19 posted on 05/13/2022 9:30:10 PM PDT by Widget Jr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Brian Griffin

#11. Russia had a 15 day plan to take over all of Ukraine, from documents captured in the first week. The President of Belarus accidentally confirmed this by showing a map of the invasion routes while discussing it on TV.


20 posted on 05/13/2022 9:32:18 PM PDT by Widget Jr
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-29 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson