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Russia's tanks in Ukraine have a 'jack-in-the-box' design flaw. And the West has known about it since the Gulf war
CNN ^ | 28-APR-2022 | Brad Lendon

Posted on 04/28/2022 8:48:08 AM PDT by SpeedyInTexas

Russian tanks with their tops blown off are just the latest sign that Russia's invasion of Ukraine isn't going to plan.

Hundreds of Russian tanks are thought to have been destroyed since Moscow launched its offensive, with British Defense Secretary Ben Wallace on Monday estimating it had lost as many as 580.

But Moscow's problems go beyond the sheer number of tanks it has lost. Experts say battlefield images show Russian tanks are suffering from a defect that Western militaries have known about for decades and refer to as the "jack-in-the-box effect." Moscow, they say, should have seen the problem coming.

(Excerpt) Read more at cnn.com ...


TOPICS: Germany; News/Current Events; Russia; United Kingdom
KEYWORDS: 40percentabandoned; 40percentkilled; autoloader; benwallace; bradlendon; chechens; chechnya; deathcabforpootie; deathcabforpooty; germany; goodriddance; isaidbudlight; pedosforputin; putinlovertrollsonfr; putinsbuttboys; putinworshippers; russia; russianaggression; scottritter; t72; t90; tank; tanks; ukraine; unitedkingdom; zottherussiantrolls
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To: mylife

The most famous American tanker...


81 posted on 04/28/2022 10:47:02 AM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another Sam Adams now that we desperately need him?)
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To: BiglyCommentary

I was a project manager (among other things) with General Dynamics.


82 posted on 04/28/2022 10:48:35 AM PDT by Gen.Blather (Wait! I said that out loud. Sorry.)
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To: allendale

I think I remember this right the T34 suspension which gave it its superb maneuverability was designed by an American named Christie. Prior to his selling it to the Soviets the US Army rejected it as impractical.


83 posted on 04/28/2022 10:50:53 AM PDT by Reily
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To: OKSooner

I was just thinking of the book Red Storm Rising that i read back in the late 80’s.
One thing that book taught me was the fact that i would NEVER intentionally find myself in a tank during battle..


84 posted on 04/28/2022 10:52:04 AM PDT by mowowie
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To: ConservativeInPA

Outrageous comments by you!

You know that logic, reason, and civility are NOT allowed on threads related, in any way, to the Ukraine-Russo war...

Shame...
Shame...
Shame...
😎


85 posted on 04/28/2022 10:54:44 AM PDT by SuperLuminal (Where is another Sam Adams now that we desperately need him?)
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To: GreyFriar

During the development and design of the T-72, the chief of the Soviet Defense Ministry in 1976, Dmitriy Ustinov said that the T-72 represented a “step backward in Soviet tank development” and put a cap on production and development of the T-72 in favor of deploying the more modern T-64 and T-80 tanks with improved fire control and protective measures for units facing NATO in Germany. The T-72 would be envisioned for utilization by second line units and for export sales.

The soviets were well aware of the problems with the T-72 after the 1982 Lebanon War. The Syrians provided the Soviets with captured Israeli tanks and M111 APFSDS ammo fired from M48A5 tanks. The shocking test results led them to initiate a crash program to refit the T-72 with applique armor and other defensive innovations as a stop gap measure.

These “improvements,” their success with export sales, along with the cheaper cost of the T-72 caused the Soviets and later the Russian Federation to keep in in place and to elevate it to the status of a main line battle tank, having lulled themselves into a complacent sense of security by dint of these “modernizations.”

The Russkis have never considered ergonomic comfort, nor the survivability of their AFV crews as a prime consideration in their designs until the T-14. They have always seemed to rely on mass and brute force steam roller tactics to overwhelm their enemies.


86 posted on 04/28/2022 10:58:10 AM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: Regulator

According to the article they knew about it but the design made the tank lower and more difficult to hit. I guess they figured the trade off was worth it.


87 posted on 04/28/2022 11:02:32 AM PDT by 98charlie
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To: 17th Miss Regt

Actually, a human loader slamming a one piece fixed cartridge into a semi-auto sliding breech block is noticeably faster then a mechanical autoloader that has to load the warhead and the propellant charge into the breech in two separate actions due to space considerations, as in the T-72. (At least until he gets tired.)

.


88 posted on 04/28/2022 11:07:26 AM PDT by DMZFrank
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To: Chainmail

I’m willing to bet you’ve never served on the Eastern Front in WW2 with either the Soviets or Germans either. Your point…if you have one.


89 posted on 04/28/2022 11:12:16 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: montag813

A fun game.


90 posted on 04/28/2022 11:14:04 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Chainmail

We stuck with the Sherman as it was easy to build and ship across the Atlantic.


91 posted on 04/28/2022 11:16:28 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: montag813

Yes sir played it a lot.


92 posted on 04/28/2022 11:29:23 AM PDT by Rappini
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To: montag813

Ah, the memories!


93 posted on 04/28/2022 11:29:54 AM PDT by Army Air Corps (Four Fried Chickens and a Coke)
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To: SpeedyInTexas
What about Chinese tanks?

The Type 98 MBT is armed with a fully-stabilized 125-mm smoothbore gun, fitted with an autoloader. Both the gun and autoloader were copied from the Soviet T-72 MBT.

The turret’s inside design layout is modelled on Russian style. The MBT (Type 99 Main Battle tank) closely resembles the Russian 2A46M autoloader’s design. There is provision for extra ammunition in the fighting compartment. This makes the MBT highly susceptible to fire once penetrated.


Russian auto loader for example
94 posted on 04/28/2022 11:33:55 AM PDT by Chad_the_Impaler
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To: BiglyCommentary
[...] What on earth were they thinking?

Soviet doctrine. Tanks and troops were considered disposable.

Now Russia doesn't have the same kind of numbers as the USSR did so the doctrine erroneous but they haven't changed their ways.

95 posted on 04/28/2022 11:42:57 AM PDT by 13foxtrot
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To: SpeedyInTexas

A modern tank like the M1A2 Sep v3 or any other modern MBT vs a T-72, T-80, T-90 is like one of them against a T-34. No contest - the tech has changed so much. T-14s do not exist outside of a few prototypes


96 posted on 04/28/2022 11:44:23 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: Striperman

CNN shouldn’t be putting out how our tanks are designed
-
The Russians already know - just you are in the dark. M1A1s were used by various radical muslim groups as well.

How something is designed is not a secret, how to build it, the materials needed, and how to use it are.


97 posted on 04/28/2022 11:53:05 AM PDT by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now its your turn)
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To: 98charlie

For real low profile the Swedish S tank wins.Although aiming can be tricky.


98 posted on 04/28/2022 11:55:19 AM PDT by hoosierham (Freedom isnt free)
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To: ealgeone

Nope. Not old enough - but I spent some time inside a couple of T-34s (and T54/55s and one T-62) to know their engineering and their characteristics.

One of the fun parts of this forum is seeing all these “experts” spout off about things they know very little about.


99 posted on 04/28/2022 11:56:04 AM PDT by Chainmail (99.36% of all statistics are made up on the spot)
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To: DMZFrank

Thank you. Didn’t Ustinov get over-ruled on the T-64/T-72 decision? Nearly 40 year old memories of GSFG order of battle are of a decision to split the T-64s and T-72s assigned to the Soviet forces, with the 64s going to Soviet units in Czechoslovakia, while the 72s went to 3 of the 4 armies in GSFG. The 4th had 64s. My memory may be a bit off on that though. Except I’m positive that the 8th Guards Tank Army had T-72s as it sat across the IZB from V Corps. And the East German MRD we expected to do the initial attack had a mix of T-55s & T-62s. Prost!


100 posted on 04/28/2022 11:56:10 AM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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