Posted on 04/26/2022 3:55:05 PM PDT by RandFan
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) pushed Secretary of State Antony Blinken on Tuesday over the risks of expanding the NATO military alliance, saying that Russia has in recent decades invaded countries that “were part of Russia.”
At a hearing, Secretary of State Antony Blinken argued that Russia hasn’t attacked NATO countries “probably for a good reason” given their collective strength against Russia. Paul then responded, “You could also argue the countries they’ve attacked were part of Russia.”
Blinken argued that it is the “fundamental right” of those countries, including Georgia and Ukraine, to decide their own future and independence.
Paul said, “I’m not saying it’s not” but then noted that the countries had been part of the Soviet Union for decades starting in the 1920s.
Paul did not defend Russian President Vladimir Putin’s invasion of Ukraine; however, Putin and his allies argue that Ukraine is not an independent country and that Russians and Ukrainians are “one people – a single whole,” which they cite to justify the war.
Though Zelensky pushed for Ukraine to be admitted as a member of NATO when the invasion began, he conceded the group’s unwillingness to put them on a fast track toward membership amid fear the move could escalate tensions with Russia.
“NATO is not prepared to accept Ukraine,” Zelensky told ABC News at the end of March.
Finland and Sweden have also reportedly committed to submitting NATO applications amid the war.
Paul pressed Blinken on Tuesday on the potential risks of Ukraine gaining NATO membership.
“Had they been or if they do become a part of NATO, that means U.S. soldiers will be fighting in Ukraine, and that’s something I very much oppose,” Paul said at the beginning of the exchange.
“These are important conversations and arguments, but my judgement is different,” Blinken said.
Historically, Paul has been against the expansion of NATO. In 2017, Paul blocked a vote on a treaty for Montenegro to join NATO, causing late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to accuse him of “working for Vladimir Putin,” as Russia also opposed the move.
Rand Paul is an idiot if he’s going to invalidate the sovereignty of practically every country in the world by saying their land used to belong to someone else.
Hey Rand, why don’t you stand on your principles and give your state back to the United Kingdom?
It boils down to the right of the people to self-determination.
Yes, lets not allow facts and history to intrude upon political underpinnings of a current conflict. That can’t explain anything, or provide a framework for resolution.
Just SHUT UP instead.
Lots of raised eyebrows in the UK right now.
> Rand Paul is an idiot if he’s going to invalidate the sovereignty of practically every country in the world by saying their land used to belong to someone else. <
I remain a big fan of Rand Paul. But by golly, you’re right about that. Paul really said something stupid there.
Half our State Department needs to be given shovels and forced to dig up all the ruins of Mariupol at bayonet point.
“Hey Rand, why don’t you stand on your principles and give your state back to the United Kingdom?”
He’d have to give it back to Virginia first, and then Virginia could give it to England.
McCain used a Rachel Maddow like line of attack against Rand Paul. I wonder, did he learn it from her or she from him?
Good point!
It boils down to the right of the people to self-determination.
***********
That right is not absolute. Whether we fight for another’s right to self-determine in any particular case depends on what they want to self-determine to be. If Ukraine’s self-determination advances the cause of Biden, the EU, and the rest of the wokesters, then I say forget it.
Russia has as much right to have a Monroe Doctrine as the US.
Our Neocons need to stay out of other countries civil wars.
“Blinken argued that it is the “fundamental right” of those countries, including Georgia and Ukraine, to decide their own future and independence.”
But not for Donetsk or Lugansk. They don’t get the fundamental “right” to independence that Kosovo, Northern Syria, etc. get.
Yes they were part of Russia, but not willingly. Kind of a forced marriage. Like England and Scotland and Wales
i can see Montenegro, an Adriatic See nation, not accepted as part of NATO.
I also see those countroes that WERE part of the Soviet Union, now defunct and subjugated to the annals of history, as separate, independent nations, responsible for their own independence and sovereignty.
this includes the ukraine, belarus, the 3 baltic states, all those ‘stans’ that exist, georgia.
You’re not getting the point.
Ukraine, even before any invasion, had a Russian seperatist movement because nearly 20% of Ukraine is ethnic Russian. It is a myth, a make belief one sided BS story created by the MSM that Ukraine is a unified and homogeneous nation. Most of the ethnic Russians are in the East, they were getting put down by the nationalists and since about 2015 with our help. That’s where the neo-nazi thing comes into the picture. The Azov unit are the guys in the East doing the “oppressing” of people that didn’t want to be part of the Ukraine. What do you say about that?
If Ukraine were a NATO country, even without Russia doing ANYTHING, we would be in the midst of what is a civil war which we have been fueling since 2015. But now imagine if US troops are part of that as in actually doing the grunt work? Is our favored Western Ukraine, the nationalist side any more entitled to independence and self determinism from Russia than the Eastern Ukraine from the nationalist Western part?
BTW, the hawks that picked on his father about Iraq in 2002, said the exact same things folks are saying today. How did that turn out? We ended up stuck “between” Shia (60%), Sunni (20%) and Kurds (20%).
“Historically, Paul has been against the expansion of NATO. In 2017, Paul blocked a vote on a treaty for Montenegro to join NATO, causing late Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) to accuse him of “working for Vladimir Putin,” as Russia also opposed the move.”
Paul gets my vote if he runs again.
“Rand Paul is an idiot if he’s going to invalidate the sovereignty of practically every country in the world by saying their land used to belong to someone else.”
His words did not invalidate anyone’s sovereignty.
He didn’t challenge that at all.
He said he is opposed to the expansion of NATO and opposed to US forces sighting in Ukraine.
“His words did not invalidate anyone’s sovereignty. He didn’t challenge that at all.”
>>> Paul then responded, “You could also argue the countries they’ve attacked were part of Russia.” <<<
““You could also argue the countries they’ve attacked were part of Russia.”
There were no other qualifiers expressed.
Nothing like “They were part of Russia (actually both Russia and the Soviet Union) and therefore are not deserving, or not valid as an independent country”.
But it does bring an uncomfortable factual perspective to some folks. Probably less than half the people in the US know it.
And it’s a fact they should know before heading head-long into war.
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