The conversation about guns we’re not having

vox.com via msn ^ | 12 mar 2022 | Sean Illing

[rellimpank]

America’s gun debate has been frozen for decades. We keep having the same arguments with the same talking points over and over again — and Americans continue to die from gun violence at hugely disproportionate numbers relative to the rest of the world.

There’s a massive cultural divide here that is very hard to reconcile. If you live in a big city or a major metropolitan area, you very likely think about guns differently than someone who grew up in a rural area. To the extent that guns are part of your world, it’s typically associated with crime and violence. But if you grew up in the South, for instance, guns are much more woven into everyday culture, and the associations are mostly positive.

So how do we bridge that gap? And is anything like a sane national equilibrium possible on guns?

I reached out to Stephen Gutowski, the founder of TheReload.com and a longtime reporter on the gun beat, for the latest episode of . Gutowski is pro-gun, but he’s also a good-faith voice in this space, and I was looking for someone who could make his side of the argument intelligible to people who don’t understand it.

[rellimpank]

-didn't put the barf alert on even though this is in the first paragraph- " — and Americans continue to die from gun violence at hugely disproportionate numbers relative to the rest of the world"-

-some good points made later--

[Bonemaker]

“But if you grew up in the South, for instance, guns are much more woven into everyday culture, and the associations are mostly positive.”

Not just the South Jack!😎

[ConservativeMind]

“Gutowski is pro-gun, but he's also a good-faith voice in this space, and I was looking for someone who could make his side of the argument intelligible to people who don't understand it.”

Huh?

[proust]

Here’s only the conversation to have:

What part of SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED don’t you get?

[Kevmo]

Americans continue to die from gun violence at hugely disproportionate numbers relative to the rest of the world.
***That is complete horseshiite. Tens, actually hundreds, of millions died from democide after their own guvmints took away their guns.

https://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/20TH.HTM

[AlaskaErik]

Once you account for suicides and criminal on criminal killings we’re pretty close to the rest of the Western world.

[gnarledmaw]

I know, thats one of the dumbest things constantly repeated on this forum. As though everything North of the Mason Dixon line is NYC.

[JimRed]

" — and Americans continue to die from gun criminal violence at hugely disproportionate numbers relative to the rest of the world"-

Correction submitted.

[jimmygrace]

How do you resolve the stalemate? Hold PEOPLE responsible for what they do, and not inanimate objects.

[Sapwolf]

I bought, trained, sighted scope on my AR-15 to defend myself from a tyrannical government per the 2nd Amendment, and to protect myself during the societal breakdown similar to what we had in Minneapolis, etc.

It is to defeat tyranny and self-defense.

Simple, and it’s a God-given right.

[E. Pluribus Unum]

Governments murdered 262,000,000 of their citizens (AKA democide) in the 20th century alone.

The more “redistributionist” a government becomes, the more likely it is to commit democide.

Citizen disarmament preceded all those democides.

Any questions?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

According to various links on line, you have just just about the same number of gun deaths by all causes as you do of being killed in a car wreck.

anyone going to give up driving?

[TornadoAlley3]

Just keep reminding them about what happened to Ukraine. Handing out weapons so citizens could defend themselves. Is that what we want here when the Russians Russians Russians come for ya?

[Ruy Dias de Bivar]

They can say what they want but we know the ultimate goal is the total abolition of the right to keep and bear arms.
This was made clear back in 1976 when Nelson “Pete” Shields, founder of Handgun Control Inc (now the Brady Center) spilled his guts to the New Yorker on how he wanted to do it.

Back then he was ONLY after handguns. Since then they have gone after the rifles.

Nelson T. ‘Pete’ Shields
Founder of Handgun Control, Inc.

“I’m convinced that we have to have federal legislation to build on. We’re going to have to take one step at a time, and the first step is necessarily — given the political realities — going to be very modest.

Of course, it’s true that politicians will then go home and say, ‘This is a great law. The problem is solved.’ And it’s also true that such statements will tend to defuse the gun-control issue for a time.

So then we’ll have to strengthen that law, and then again to strengthen that law, and maybe again and again. Right now, though, we’d be satisfied not with half a loaf but with a slice. Our ultimate goal — total control of handguns in the United States — is going to take time.

My estimate is from seven to ten years. The problem is to slow down the increasing number of handguns sold in this country. The second problem is to get them all registered. And the final problem is to make the possession of all handguns and all handgun ammunition — except for the military, policemen, licensed security guards, licensed sporting clubs, and licensed gun collectors — TOTALLY ILLEGAL.”

-Pete Shields, Chairman and founder, Handgun Control Inc., “A Reporter At Large: Handguns,” The New Yorker, July 26, 1976, 57-58

“Yes, I’m for an outright ban [on handguns].”

-Pete Shields, Chairman emeritus, Handgun Control, Inc., 60 Minutes interview

HCI, around 1984, made a grab for the semi-auto rifles and shotguns, and missed. Then Josh Sugarmann tuned in. This has been the mantra ever since.
“ Assault weapons’ menacing looks, coupled with the public’s confusion over fully-automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons —anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun— can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons.”

– Josh Sugarmann

[DesertRhino]

“So how do we bridge that gap? And is anything like a sane national equilibrium possible on guns?”

Maybe we could think up some sort of federal system. Like a republic made from individual states with the laws that best suit them. I know I’ve heard something like that before.

[Steamburg]

Expect the imbecillic raving and screaming to amplify as more states pass constitutional carry. We are up to 22 and about to make it 23 states. Want to have a real discussion about violence in our society. Explain why 5 democrat run shitholes account for more than 90% of the deadly violence in this nation.

[doorgunner69]

There is no “conservation” to be had, get that straight.

Inalienable rights, look it up liberals.

[rellimpank]

--the pie chart about halfway down tells it all-

-even though this is for Chicago, the rest of the country fits--except for the states that have a small population of certain "ethnic " groups --the homicide rate in those is about like the Scandinavian countries--

https://heyjackass.com/

[William Tell]

Almost 250 years ago people in the newly formed United States had a discussion about guns. They rightly feared government tyranny and knew that they were ultimately responsible for their own personal safety.

It is a lie to state that Beto doesn't want to confiscate guns. It is a lie to state that Chuck Schumer doesn't want to confiscate guns. It is a lie to state that Nancy Pelosi doesn't want to confiscate guns. We know it and they know it. They have to lie about it or face destruction at election time.

[sauropod]

Sorry Sean. You’re not gettin’ them.