Posted on 03/07/2022 6:45:33 AM PST by Conservat1
The Kremlin has announced its demands for ending the war in Ukraine:
-Ukraine must change its constitution to guarantee it won't join any "blocs", i.e. NATO + EU.
-Must recognise Crimea as part of Russia.
-Must recognise the eastern separatist regions as independent.— Patrick Reevell (@Reevellp) March 7, 2022
And we should give him a way out.
Russia is coming to the realization that they can't "win" this war.
Out of curiosity, I wonder what would happen if Ukraine accepts these conditions, but the rest of the world refuses to lift the sanctions until Russia pays reparations and leaves Crimea? This would leave Russia in an awkward situation. Would/could they continue the war, even though Ukraine has capitulated?
Perhaps we don’t know what they consider a win? If they achieved their goals which may not be obvious to us, they might consider that a win.
I guess speculation is a waste of time really.
Every point you tried to make Ive already demolished. There was no signing of any agreement for military defence. All agreements are unenforceable. Signing is meaningless, unenforceable. Three powers, 10 powers, 100 powers, signing, doesn’t matter. Unenforceable. Ukraine’s nuclear plants don’t mean they can make nukes. Where are their nukes? They have never had any direct control of nukes. Even if they had they don’t NOW. So it’s meaningless.
No, pacifism didn’t lead to the second world war, Nazi expansionism did. The war was inevitable, pacifism or not. Armchair second guessing by you in your moms basement changes nothing. And nukes didn’t even exist when the war started so stop trying to connect then.
Ukraine has no nukes. NATO will not join the war. All agreements arent worth the part they’re printed on. These are the facts. You lose, on every point. Why are you typing posts if you care about Ukraine? Why don’t you grow a pair and go fight? P-ssy.
Every point you tried to make Ive already demolished.
***I see you haven’t taken that critical thinking class. You’re just bloviating some more. Kinda tiresome.
There was no signing of any agreement for military defence.
***We gave them assurances of sovereignty and borders. It turns out, empty assurances. Hence, it was an empty agreement and they’ll be going towards building their nukes and blowing away your Russian buddies you’re so fond of. Then we can come back to you and ask why dunderheads held up the provisions of the agreement for dismantling nukes but did nothing when the time came to fulfill the rest of the agreement. You sold them down the river and you make me sick.
All agreements are unenforceable. Signing is meaningless, unenforceable.
***The Ukes gave up their Nukes under that agreement in good faith. We’re selling them down the river in bad faith. The Russians have even INVADED their country. If the whole agreement was meaningless and unenforceable then when the Ukes deploy their Nukes on the Rukes they’ll point to this unenforceable agreement as the source of their action, they will point to jerks like YOU.
Three powers, 10 powers, 100 powers, signing, doesn’t matter. Unenforceable.
***It was enforceable enough for them to give up their nukes. What is sauce for the goose could be sauce for the nuke-plumed gander.
Ukraine’s nuclear plants don’t mean they can make nukes.
***It means they have the knowledge. They have fissible materials. Hell, they even have nuclear poisoned soil to make dirty bombs right there at Chernobyl.
Where are their nukes?
***They gave them up. Now they are very likely building some of their own. That’s what I would do.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4044173/posts
They have never had any direct control of nukes.
***They had enough control to turn them over to the nonproliferation folks.
Even if they had they don’t NOW.
***Their actions show that this is likely the case, otherwise they could have just said “we have nukes, don’t invade us”. But they have nuke KNOWLEDGE, nuke MATERIALS, and now the direct NEED for nuke weapons. Thanks to your boy, Vlad.
So it’s meaningless.
***It is far from meaningless. It’s like having a transaction for selling a car. The guy writes you a check for the car, seems like it’s good. You let him drive the car off the lot. Turns out the check is written in “meaninglessness” invisible ink. Does the guy give back the car? Nope. So in a few years you and your mafioso buddy who owes you a favor run into this guy at the local bar. You tell the mafia thug, the guy ‘takes care of it’, all the while the car owner claiming since the agreement was meaningless then he gets the benefit of it and the other guy gets the loss. What that mafia thug will introduce to the guy is the inverse law of meaninglessness.
No, pacifism didn’t lead to the second world war, Nazi expansionism did.
***It is intriguing that you pantywaist panzies are such apologists for appeasement at the same time as bootlickers for Putler. The lessons of history when it came to Sudetenland were as plain as day. But you could look across the sky in mid day and fail to see the sun, because you don’t want to. Your bootlicking of a tyrant is disgusting.
The war was inevitable, pacifism or not.
***Ya just can’t learn. Ya dont’ want to learn. There’s no leading you to very basic conclusions. You are a hopeless case, and when the time comes after all is said & done, where do we find @$$#0/es like Chamberlain who were proven flat wrong? Do they even repent of their foolishness? Nope. You’re not even worthy of being thrown into the fire because you stink.
Armchair second guessing by you in your moms basement changes nothing.
***ho hum, more bloviating assertions from the pantywaist brigade.
And nukes didn’t even exist when the war started
***Probably true, but the nuke KNOWLEDGE existed, the nuke Materials exist, and now the nuke motivation is there. Because of pantywaist pukes like you.
so stop trying to connect then.
***Stop trying to be a pantywaist. There’s nothing in it.
Ukraine has no nukes.
***Now you’re just repeating the same bullshiite over and over. Read sumthin. If I were Ukraine, I’d be starting my own nuke program with all them nuke experts we got lyin’ around from our 15 nuke power plants and Chernobyl cleanup team and experience giving away nukes.
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4044173/posts
NATO will not join the war.
***Argument from silence. Classic fallacy. You don’tknow the future and neither do I. So you can’t argue from the future, it is a classic fallacy of the argument from silence. Not that such things mean ANYthing to you, since you are so aggressively ignorant on critical thinking.
All agreements arent worth the part they’re printed on.
***Keep that in mind when the Ukes build their own Nukes and drop them on the Rukes.
These are the facts.
***You guys seriously have no idea what a fact is. You pretend like your own asserted bloviations are facts. It appears to be a form of mental retardation.
You lose, on every point.
***Wait until you meet up with that mafioso dude. You’ll change your tune.
Why are you typing posts if you care about Ukraine?
***Why are YOU? It’s not like you have any critical thinking skills. Your bloviating is just pure mental manure.
Why don’t you grow a pair and go fight?
***I will. You put up a gofundme account, I’ll go. And I will join the Uke Nuke effort, and we will blow the hell out of your Russian tyrant buddies and guess what that little frackwad PUtin would do? When he sees Moscow under a dirty nuke bomb plume, he will threaten the US and NATO because he can’t own up to his own mistakes, just like panzy appeasers such as yourself can’t own up to their side of obligation in a sovereignty agreement.
P-ssy.
***Go ahead, post up that gofundme account. And when the Ukes use their Nukes, make sure you stay right here on Free Republic so you can explain how “meaningless” the provisions of that agreement were. Cockroaches like you always go scattering when the lights get turned on.
” If he doesn’t invade other countries he doesn’t have to worry about it.”
That’s a stupid statement. In 1998 there were 16 NATO countries. Today there are 30! All new ones are expanding east toward Russia. You do the math. That is almost a 100% increase! It is exactly what Putin is harping about and no western country is willing to say “we will stop,” let’s talk.
It’s one thing to cancel and tyrannize your own population (like covid mandates, etc.) it is an entirely different thing to cancel another country through sanctions — that do not work and never have.
NATO is a military institution — not a kindercare group. What the hell do you think would happen if Russia and/or China decided to put bases in Canada and Mexico with missiles all along our border?? I think I know. Ask Cuba that question?
The U.S. is the lead dog in NATO. The U.S.and the other NATO countries in support have invaded Vietnam, Iraq, Kosovo, and Afgnastain. You would be an absolute fool to believe that the U.S. under the guise of NATO would not be a threat to Russia. Especially when there has been nothing but Russia bashing from the woke crowd for the last five years.
You sound like the fools who are about to lead our country further down the path of destruction. That destruction can come from military confrontation, but more likely economic destruction. You think prices are high now — hold on to your backside. You ain’t seen nothing yet!
Wait until it costs $200 to fill up your car, or your electric and gas bill triple. Wait until the farmers start paying three to four times what they normally pay for the fertilizer and fuel they must have any decent crop yields and shipment of those goods. What will that add to the cost of a trip to the grocery store??
The fools in Washington are now turning to Venezuela and Iran to save our butt. Both countries have been considered our enemies for years. The fool’s knee-jerk, cancel culture sanctions have no logical thought to the consequences for our country — and in particular the impact on Europe.
It ain’t a pretty picture. It will get worse. Much worse, before it ever gets any better unless this madness stops. When Russia, China, Iran, a few middle east countries, a few African and South American countries, and maybe even India link up to form their own block we will lose our monopolar power status and fast. Do you know what that means??
We are entering a new world, my friend. This new world will make its way down to you and me both (if you are in the U.S.) and our way of life. The only good thing is I don’t live in Europe.
Stupid? Those countries were not invaded by NATO. They joined because they feared invasion. They are defensive not offensive.
Argument from silence? NATO and multiple governments have announced they will not go to war. Explicitly and directly. Read the news, this is basic info. Like reallly, you’re shockingly uninformed.
Learn from history? Ive studied it since 1st grade, along with Latin and Greek. My whole education and worldview is historically oriented. Pacifist? Come on, I was for the first Iraq war, Afghanistan, and war with Russia and China if they had been non-nuclear states.
That doesn’t mean war in Ukraine is right for the West.Your claims about Ukrainian nukes verge on hallucinatory fantasy. You “bet” they will get them? Bet what, your imaginary castles in the sky? There will never be Ukrainian nukes. Ukraine nuked more like it. Dude they are losing their reactors one by one to superior Russian forces.
This will not end your way. This will not end well.
“Stupid? Those countries were not invaded by NATO. They joined because they feared invasion. They are defensive not offensive.”
You sound like the idiots in Washington.
So if Russia and China begin taking over South and Central America and add bases in Mexico and Canada for “defensive” purposes, that’s okay. Right?
Argument from silence?
***Yes. You are arguing from the future, which is silent. If you knew the future so well you could just buy and sell stocks all day long and get extremely wealthy. But you don’t know the future, so arguing from the silence of the future is a classic fallacy of arguing from silence.
NATO and multiple governments have announced they will not go to war.
***They also had a MAP for Ukraine. And some members signed a sovereignty assurance agreement in Budapest. So even your own backup data is muddled, let alone arguing from the silence of the future which is a classic fallacy.
Explicitly and directly.
***Yes, explicitly and directly SIGNED. Explicitly and directly, NUKES given up towards that agreement in good faith.
Read the news, this is basic info.
***This applies to you, shortpants.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukraine%E2%80%93NATO_relations
NATO Secretary General Jens Stoltenberg also stressed that Russia will not be able to veto Ukraine’s accession to NATO, as we will not return to the era of spheres of interest, when large countries decide what smaller ones should do:[12]
“Each country chooses its own path, and this also applies to joining NATO. It is up to Ukraine and the 30 NATO members to decide whether it aspires to be a member of the Alliance. Russia has no say in whether Ukraine should be a member of the Alliance. They cannot veto the decisions of their neighbors. We will not return to the era of spheres of interest, when large countries decide what to do with smaller ones.”
Like reallly, you’re shockingly uninformed.
***Candidly, frankly, you are far worse informed, and you don’t even know it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_Memorandum_on_Security_Assurances
Learn from history? Ive studied it since 1st grade, along with Latin and Greek.
***Good for you. I look forward to evidence it helped you to generate legitimate logical assertions, but so far no evidence of it.
My whole education and worldview is historically oriented.
***Then learn the history of Sudetenland and the local regional bully who later on caused the deaths of tens of millions.
Pacifist? Come on, I was for the first Iraq war, Afghanistan, and war with Russia and China if they had been non-nuclear states.
***So you become a wuss when it becomes nukular. Maybe you should apply them thar historikal lessons about appeasement because this time it leads to a nuke exchange, not a conventional one. And even that conventional war, WW2, led to a Nuke drop which ended that war.
That doesn’t mean war in Ukraine is right for the West.
***Your statement doesn’t make sense. There already IS war in the Ukraine.
Your claims about Ukrainian nukes verge on hallucinatory fantasy.
***Well then, perhaps you should express that kind of bullsnot on this thread
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/4044173/posts
You “bet” they will get them? Bet what, your imaginary castles in the sky?
***I “bet” the same thing you are “betting” against such an outcome. If there were a predictIt.org contract to bet on, I would. Do you have some alternative? I used to bet on Intrade, even made money as a layman on Cold Fusion as a result. So yeah, I’ll bet.
There will never be Ukrainian nukes.
***There already WERE Uke Nukes. They gave them up. They have 15 nuke power plants. They have Chernobyl. They have the knowledge, they have the fissionable material. They now have the motivation. Almost all the vectors point against your bullsnot assertion.
Ukraine nuked more like it.
***More of your bloviating assertions.
Dude they are losing their reactors one by one to superior Russian forces.
***Yes they are. They have been invaded, by a force that we explicitly signed an assurance of sovereignty and borders against that very power which invaded Ukraine. And it’s p^$$y Puke Putinist aPPeasers like you who have enabled this.
This will not end your way.
***Argument from the future. Invalid. I know it’s more likely to be true than not true but you are engaging a classic fallacy here. You’re also engaging in fallacious thinking by only considering Pootypoot’s viewpoint, by appeasing him as a dicktater, by being his apologist.
This will not end well.
***Because of PootyPootPukes like YOU.
P-ssy.
***Oh look. This poll applies to you. You should figure out where you’re gonna flee, where your Bugout Bag is, all that stuff.
Poll: 68% of Republicans Say They’d Fight if U.S. Were Invaded While Majority of Democrats Say They’d Flee
https://freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/4044797/posts
That poll has nothing to do with the Ukraine. Whatsoever. That’s about American soil. Not Ukraine. Get it?
You’re simply repeating points that don’t exist. There is no enforceable agreement. No one in media or government or academia even thinks there is. There are no Uke nukes.
We will arm Ukraine and hope they hold out. That’s all. Send me a postcard from the front, tough guy.
You’re right. It has to do with how much of a p^$$y you are.
Listen buttercup, there is a difference between offense and defense. You might want to invest in a dictionary so you can identify the difference.
The only ones Russia needs to fear is the Chinese. Russia has nothing we want. They have great people, so do we, they have gas, so do we, they have some great architecture, so do we, they have nukes, so do we. So why on earth would we be the danger. China on the other hand has been looking longingly at Russia for a very long time.
I ain’t for it either brother. I saw two many body bags in Nam. THAT was enough for me. To see someone you knew five minutes ago blown to bits now is a sickening feeling. To see their bloody, torn apart body is just way to sickening. But, someone has to do the dirty job and it takes men willing to bleed and die to accomplish those dirty jobs sometimes. I pray for everyone of the good guys out there. I even feel for those poor Russian conscripts that are forced into the military, with very little training and sent out as cannon fodder, it just sickens me.
I don't think it is toughness, but more of an emotional issue of some kind.
Zelensky may be forced to take this deal but in the long run, the above ask will lead Ukraine to be controlled by Russia.
Sounds like you've given up on the idea of freedom, here, and in the rest of the west.
I think the idea is on the increase.
“So why on earth would we be the danger.”
Sure, Mr. Brain surgeon/rocket scientist.
Here’s why we are in danger:
1. If we and NATO push Putin into a corner he has nukes and is crazy enough to use them. You may call NATO defensive but when they start planting troops and rockets on the Russian border it is going to be very difficult to make the “defensive” case with Putin. Putin drew a line and unlike our side he meant it!
Russia understands the implications of nuclear war. The article below explains their thinking very well.
Yes, Russia could use nuclear weapons
https://bit.ly/3IWKXBk
2. We get 8% of our oil from Russia. If that is not important why is Xiden and his team making trips to beg Venezuala and Iran for their oil?
3. We have a growing reliance on Russia for our fertilizer which in case you did not know is critical for food production. See this chart: https://bit.ly/3IXyrBF.
4. Russia produces 14% of the world’s mineral extraction. https://tmsnrt.rs/3pNR03X. The west can easily be cut off from any of that.
5. The U.S. has been the reserve currency of the world since WWII. The west’s economic restrictions will force Russia into alliances with mainly China and other nations to share the world currency with China. In fact, Russia is demanding that its oil and gas sales be paid in Rubles even now. No more petrodollars. So much for the petrodollar scheme. When the dollar takes a big hit and we can no longer print our way out of disasters, we also take a big hit and that then rolls down to each of us in our pocketbook — not to mention creating a major financial problem for us and our $30 trillion in debt.
There are many more reasons this is a disaster but these five should do for the moment.
While we have many of the same products in this country, the point is the Russian portion, which is substantial, will be removed from circulation in the west which will do nothing but cause supply and demand to skyrocket. I’m sure even you understand that with oil at $130 per barrel and almost $5 per gallon of gasoline at the pump now - and headed to $10 per gallon. Want to fill up your car for a couple of hundred dollars??
We certainly agree that the 10-ton gorilla is China, but we’ve just driven Russia into the arms of China which makes them even more dangerous. So it could be half the world’s population is out of the so-called global system. (Russia, China, maybe India, the Russian satellites, and many African countries).
Our world hegemony is taking a turn and that’s the bottom line. And that will lead to big changes in our society!
You know, we actually managed to grow food before Russia sold us fertilizer! We are perfectly capable of building all our own stuff.
I’m not a bit worried about Putin using nukes, we have nukes too. About the time they lift off ours would be landing in Moscow. I happen to believe in God so if it’s my time to go, then it’s my time to go. I’m not going to invade my neighbor and steal his stuff because I have my own stuff.
Putin wants a legacy and he is perfectly willing to kill every military age male in order to do it.
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