Posted on 02/25/2022 1:03:42 PM PST by Covenantor
NATO Secretary-General Jens Stoltenberg on Friday said that Russian President Vladimir Putin has threatened the alliance by telling it to withdraw forces from member nations or face consequences.
This goes far beyond Ukraine," Stoltenberg warned. "This is about how Russia is actually challenging, contesting core values for our security. Then warning that NATO should withdraw all forces and infrastructure from almost half of our members.
"They said that if we don't do that, if we don't meet their demands, there will be what they call ‘military-technical consequences,'" he added.
The leader of the 30-member alliance said that in response to these threats NATO has for the first time deployed its Response Force for collective security.
Stoltenberg said the U.S., U.K., France and Germany are among the NATO nations to have deployed forces and lead elements to assist the Response Force.
"We have to take this seriously," he said....
(more at link....posting from droid with lousy connection)
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
What mistake? I keep hearing that, but no specifics
For one thing, he didn’t expect demonstrations in Moscow against what he did.
For another, he didn’t expect Zelensky to show such strength.
Another thing, Europe is shocked and angry that he is doing such a stupid thing. Nato has come back from being asleep and the general feel of ...including CNN...that what he did was a political disaster.
When I saw him yesterday, he looked different...red cheeks, eyes like deer in headlights...IMO he has come to the realization that what he is doing is STUPID.
Ukraine is a sovereign country. Putin’s comparing it to Nazi Germany is foolish. Zelensky is Jewish. THAT was a mistake.
But I could be wrong.
BINGO!
That might be the most succinct explanation of how things developed that I've ever read. There was some hesitation: Some Ukrainians were unsure if NATO would really come through for them should Putin repeat in Ukraine what they'd seen in, say, Georgia. But, most of all, the majority of Ukrainians wanted the right of self-determination. They knew they'd never get that from Putin, and there was only one realistic alternative.
I'd add that most Ukrainians were even then utterly sick of the corruption at all levels of government, knew that the corruption was a major part of what was holding them back, and accepting EU requirements would go far to beat back the worst of the corruption.
Beyond the clear Putin trolls on FR, we have a bunch of FReepers who think they are informed (mostly by Russian disinformation!) but are such ignorant fools that they never listen to real average Ukrainians. They see some debris on the surface of the river and never understand the powerful currents below, or the rains that feed the river.
Russians are a macho culture like old school latin cultures.
If Putin is showing weakness, his life will soon be over. If you are the alpha wolf, when you get weak you die.
I was looking solely at the military operations. I am a bit impressed, because if the US did this we would have leveled Kiev by now and have a burning highway of wreckage doing it. He has left most of his forces on the borders, and is sending small (relatively so) strike forces in. The power and internet remained on, with people milling around Russian military forces. That is so odd that I can’t understand it. Again, the US would NEVER allow that, and would have been forcibly pushing the civilians away for fear of IEDs.
They (Russia) has managed to minimize civilian causalities while steadily advancing to Kiev.
But he has to finish it soon. If NATO starts mobilizing, the chess moves he has left gets smaller. To the point where the tactical nukes he is positioning in Western Russia become the only way out.
Putin is in fatal terrain. He HAS to win, and do so in a way that appeases the internal and external influencers. He thought he could do this with some support, since internal Russian propaganda is that Ukraine is Neo Nazi (and they have A LOT of Neo Nazi’s. Including groups associated with Zelensky). I suspect he figured we (NATO and the west) would give less support than we are.
But remember, most of the Russian forces on the border aren’t moving yet. If tonight Putin decides that nice nice is over, then the lights will go out and the blood will flow.
Your post is excellent.
I’m curious...do you think Putin will decide to stop being
“nice, nice?”
Shocked that Zelensky, the “comedian” is so cool and professional, while Putin appears to me to be losing it.
Amazing, it’s as though Putin thought his actions would be a big secret. Look at the world wide attention it is getting.
The man has no foresight.
America is, but won’t do it effectively. Point nukes pointedly at him, like JFK did. He’ll back down.
It is hard to get into the head of a man like Putin, but I will attempt to make a few observations.
He rose up from the ranks of the KGB, as an admitted Orthodox Christian, in a government that had major issues with religion. That implies he is VERY good at playing political games (his life actions make me question his commitment to his faith, but he baptized his kids during a time where that could be a career ending move).
He has also been in power for over 20 years. With a massive amount of wealth, power, and privilege. People in such positions need to be ruthless to survive, and the people around them realize they have to sanitize the news for the boss or be removed. Happens in school boards, small companies, large companies, nation states, etc. The guy at the helm may not have the best view of reality.
So you have a ruthless man, with a long history of surviving difficult situations, but now rich and on top of the heap, looking at a real threat. And NATO going to the Ukraine was a real threat. Note that Ukraine has been a mess for a long time. Everyone around the world has had their finger in Ukraine, and it was more or less tolerated UNTIL they elected a comedian that started talking about joining NATO. Now Putin, who has been in an bubble of yes men, has a problem that can not be sanitized, hidden, or ignored.
I believe he thought he could just roll in quickly, remove the head of the Ukraine, set up a new government, and go home for tea. Russia positioned a lot of troops on the borders a month or more ago but then did.. nothing. When they did move it was in an extremely limited and cautious way. That implies that 1. He cares about protecting civilian lives and infrastructure. 2. Someone among his power base is NOT willing to go kill a bunch of family members (the Ukraine and Russia are very intertwined).
Or, 3. His army is not able to launch a full attack.
If this drags on, the army is going to get more and more upset. They may have relatives in Ukraine. They may BE from Ukraine. It is one thing to go after muslims in Chechneia, another to attack other Orthodox next door that have close ties to you.
So the clock is ticking. If things could have been done quickly in a day, no one would be upset. But the longer this goes on the more “real” it gets back home. The more pushback Putin gets. At some point, it becomes easier to send in the rest of the armored groups in and quickly finish things, than let the long slow drama play out.
Add in NATO’s reaction force heading to Poland, Romania, and the Baltics, and Putin has at best days to finish Ukraine and pivot, or he will have a hostile force on three fronts (Romania, Poland, and the Baltics). He can not allow that to happen.
My bet is we will see a move tomorrow. Either the rest of the brigades start flooding in, or canned sunshine being openly threatened (nukes) or used. Putin can not allow a NATO force to get a foothold on his border with the bleeding ulcer of Kiev going on.
Excellent analysis like this makes me glad I come to Free Republic on a regular basis.
<>You will never get this with the conventional media.
Yeah, even Hitler loved Eva Braun.
The problem with Putin is that the more one observes, researches, etc., the worse it gets.
Hi.
” Look, you can’t have a war if nobody comes.”
5.56mm
Because at this point, listening to Putin and his demands, no one with a hint of sense who’s not a Putin troll or tool thinks Putin, succeeding in Ukraine, will desist from his long term plans.
I am just an engineer with a passion for history.
Not a policy expert.
But I have seen patterns. People act the same. This is going to be a great book 50 years from now. And people will have more insight than us.
Unless I missed it, this has not been posted:
https://www.nato.int/cps/en/natohq/opinions_192455.htm
Note this from the Q & A:
“...this goes far beyond Ukraine. This is about how Russia is actually challenging, contesting core values for security, and demanding that NATO should withdraw all forces and infrastructure from almost half of our members.
And they have stated that if you don’t do that, if we don’t meet their demands, there will be, what they call, military-technical consequences. So we have to take this seriously. And that’s exactly why we are now deploying the NATO Response Force, for the first time in an collective defense context.”
This (and Putin's plans) go back much further. The key element is the general movement in most of Ukraine for self-determination and to join the EU. Most Ukrainians are not dumb - they could see how most other recent additions to the EU were doing much better than they (Ukraine), could see that the rampant corruption at all levels was holding Ukraine back, and knew how, historically, Russian domination had worked out for them.
It is the "cancer" of the EU and the tamping down of the most blatant corruption that scares the Russian elites most, precisely because Russia and Ukraine have been so intertwined. Trying a more Western model didn't work out very well for Russia, but, sooner or later the mass of the populace, which is really rather poor, would figure out WHY. Russia has nothing to fear from NATO so long as Russia doesn't do stupid stuff. Their powerful have EVERYTHING to fear from the example of a self-determined economically successful Ukraine.
I almost think Biden wanted Russia to invade Ukraine. Wasn’t it the current leadership in Ukraine that was talking to OANN and Giuliani about the criminal activities of Hunter? If this is all about Russia colluding with the Biden Crime Family to get Hunter back on the payroll in Ukraine, Uncle Joe needs to be the one in the DC jail with his son and brother.
Because Putin is not going to stop with Ukraine. If you read his writings, you begin to see that he has a grand ambition to restore Russia to its former pre-1914 bounaries - and, of course, he will be its “Tsar.”
IOW, he has his sights set on Poland and the Baltic States - all of which are NATO countries. And do not kid yourself that Putin is bluffing when he threatens nuclear war. Never in his entire position of power has he failed to make good on a threat.
Deployed to where?
bkmk
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