Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


1 posted on 02/18/2022 7:42:23 PM PST by elpadre
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies ]


To: elpadre

and more:

“..In doing so, the West didn’t break any treaties, but some participants were concerned nevertheless. Years later, Genscher said that the expansion was just fine from a formally legal point of view. But it was impossible to deny, he said, that it was counter to the spirit of the understandings reached in 1990....”


2 posted on 02/18/2022 7:43:11 PM PST by elpadre (And here in NCini)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

Obama 2.O is itching for a fight, since the plandemic is fizzling out.


3 posted on 02/18/2022 7:47:14 PM PST by waterhill (Resist)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

“The spirit of the treaty, he wrote, precludes the option of expanding the NATO zone into the East.”

This Russian propaganda is nonsense. If the Russians wanted NATO expansion covered by the 2+4 treaty they should have added it to the treaty!

Either:

1) Russia didn’t care about it enough to add it to the treaty
2) Russia asked for it, but the west said no.

Either way no betrayal is possible.


4 posted on 02/18/2022 7:47:16 PM PST by Renfrew
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: All

No Russian ever called me deplorable.

Russians aren’t the ones calling Americans who don’t agree with their warped narratives domestic terrorists.

The ruling party made their bed. I don’t want anymore American sons dying to fill their pockets


5 posted on 02/18/2022 7:47:44 PM PST by TigerClaws
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

The Soviet Union put missiles in Cuba, and we totally freaked out.

NATO tries to expand into Ukraine, Russia freaks out and we think they are over-reacting?

This is a double standard. The western powers are causing the problem here.


6 posted on 02/18/2022 7:50:02 PM PST by ClearCase_guy ("If you see something, say something"? I see people dying from vaccines.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

https://www.rt.com/news/549921-nato-expansion-russia-document/

Putin was right, Stoltenberg was wrong: NATO “brazenly deceived” Russia about expansion and a British document proves it

A newly discovered document from March 1991 shows US, UK, French, and German officials discussing a pledge made to Russia that NATO will not expand to Poland and beyond. Its publication by the German magazine Der Spiegel on Friday proves Moscow right and NATO wrong on the matter.

The minutes of a March 6, 1991 meeting in Bonn between political directors of the foreign ministries of the US, UK, France, and Germany contain multiple references to “2+4” talks on German unification in which the West made it “clear” to the Soviet Union that NATO will not expand past the eastern borders of Germany.

“We made it clear to the Soviet Union – in the 2+4 talks, as well as in other negotiations – that we do not intend to benefit from the withdrawal of Soviet troops from Eastern Europe,” the document quotes US Assistant Secretary of State for Europe and Canada Raymond Seitz.
“NATO should not expand to the east, either officially or unofficially,” Seitz added.

A British representative also mentions the existence of a “general agreement” that membership of NATO for eastern European countries is “unacceptable.”
“We had made it clear during the 2+4 negotiations that we would not extend NATO beyond the Elbe,” said West German diplomat Juergen Hrobog. “We could not therefore offer Poland and others membership in NATO.”

The minutes later clarified he was referring to the Oder River, the boundary between East Germany and Poland. Hrobog further noted that West German Chancellor Helmut Kohl and Foreign Minister Hans-Dietrich Genscher had agreed with this position as well.

The document was found in the UK National Archives by Joshua Shifrinson, a political science professor at Boston University in the US. It had been marked “Secret” but was declassified at some point.

Shifrinson tweeted on Friday he was “honored” to work with Der Spiegel on the document showing that “Western diplomats believed they had indeed made a NATO non-enlargement pledge.”


9 posted on 02/18/2022 8:14:30 PM PST by EasySt (Say not this is the truth, but so it seems to me to be, as I see this thing I think I see.#MAGA)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

The nato document is here

https://www.rt.com/news/549921-nato-expansion-russia-document/


12 posted on 02/18/2022 9:09:31 PM PST by HollyB
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

Cheated Ukraine also. “Give up nukes and we will ensure your safety”. They should have kept a few big fatties.


13 posted on 02/18/2022 9:10:12 PM PST by The Antiyuppie (When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

And what did russia promise in return in this exchange?


18 posted on 02/19/2022 3:26:31 AM PST by fruser1
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

To: elpadre

Here’s a novel idea! Let’s ask the people of Ukraine what they want! Who the hell do Biden and Putin think they are to decide the fate of humans in Ukraine? The so-called peace keeping orgs (UN and NATO) are world jokes serving no purpose other than to further enrich the wealthy of this world.


22 posted on 02/19/2022 4:58:41 AM PST by eeriegeno (Checks and balances??? What checks and balances?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson