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Herd Immunity Against COVID-19 ‘May Not Be Possible’: CDC Health Official
Epoch Times ^ | 11/16/2021 | Zachary Steiber

Posted on 11/16/2021 9:43:52 PM PST by SeekAndFind

Herd immunity against the virus that causes COVID-19 may be impossible to reach, a federal health official said in little-noticed remarks earlier this month.

“We would discourage a strict goal of a threshold where we think if we reach that, that community transmission will then cease,” Dr. Jefferson Jones, a medical officer on the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention’s (CDC) COVID-19 Epidemiology Task Force told a panel of the agency’s vaccine advisers.

“I think thinking that we will be able to achieve some kind of threshold where there’ll be no more transmission of infections may not be possible,” Jones said.

Herd immunity, or community immunity, refers to a situation where a certain percentage of a population has immunity against an infectious disease. Immunity can come from vaccination or prior illness. When the percentage is reached, the collective immunity offers some protection to people without immunity because “the disease has little opportunity to spread within the community,” according to the CDC.

Some officials had hoped that the combination of vaccine-conferred immunity and natural immunity, or protection from prior illness, would one day reach a high enough proportion of certain areas, and eventually the entire United States, to achieve herd immunity.

Dr. Anthony Fauci, for instance, said last year that an impact would be seen when as little as 50 percent immunity was reached. Blanket herd immunity, or a wider range of protection, would take up to 85 percent immunity, he said during an NPR interview.

Waning protection against infection from vaccines is driving the newer predictions that herd immunity may never be reached.

Achieving community immunity will be “very complicated with waning immunity,” Jones said during the Nov. 2 meeting. All three shots authorized in the United States decline sharply in effectiveness as time elapses, studies have shown. The number of COVID-19 cases, hospitalizations, and deaths in people who have been vaccinated has risen in recent months.

“Emerging evidence shows that vaccine effectiveness against COVID-19 infections is decreasing over time,” Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC’s director, told a Senate panel during a recent hearing.

Jones was answering a question from Dr. Oliver Brooks, chief medical officer of Watts Healthcare and a member of the agency’s vaccine advisory panel. Brooks wanted to know if vaccinating 5- to 11-year-olds would help reach herd immunity; shots for that age group were recently cleared by U.S. drug regulators and the CDC.

Brooks told the Los Angeles Times that more Americans need to get a COVID-19 vaccine but that the CDC’s new message ““almost makes you less motivated to get more people vaccinated.”

About 68 percent of the U.S. population is fully vaccinated as of Nov. 15.

Dr. John Brooks, a CDC official helping lead the agency’s response to COVID-19, answered by saying 70- to 80-percent immunity is good enough for herd immunity against many other diseases but the CCP (Chinese Communist Party) virus, which causes COVID-19, “has a lot of tricks up its sleeve, and it’s repeatedly challenged us.”

“It’s impossible to predict what herd immunity will be in a new pathogen until you reach herd immunity,” he added.

Experts have been debating herd immunity since the beginning of the pandemic. Many reached the conclusion that herd immunity was practically impossible months ago. “We need to be cognizant that even with the vaccine, we probably will never reach herd immunity,” Kamran Kadkhoda, medical director of the Immunopathology Laboratory at the Cleveland Clinic, wrote in a January paper.

Professor Francois Balloux, director of the University College London’s Genetics Institute, said over the summer that the emergence of the Alpha and Delta strains of the CCP virus made it more likely that most people around the world would get infected by the virus more than once over their lifetime.

Initial vaccine trials that suggested a high efficacy against infection led to optimism but herd immunity “rapidly turned out to be impossible” because of the waning immunity and the newer, more transmissible strains, Balloux told The Epoch Times over Zoom.

“Unless we get another generation of vaccines, which are better blocking transmission, I think we won’t see anything like traditional herd immunity in the sense of measles,” he added.

The waning vaccine effectiveness triggered clearance for booster doses for tens of millions of Americans in recent months. Some of the most-vaccinated states, meanwhile, are seeing new case records lately, including Vermont.

A growing number of experts have said they think COVID-19 and the CCP virus will be a problem the world will be dealing with for years, if not permanently.

“We’re going to be dealing with this for at least another five to 10 years,” Dr. Michael Saag, professor of medicine and infectious diseases at the University of Alabama Birmingham, told The Epoch Times last month.

“The virus will never go away. It will be endemic. We’ll always have it with us. It’s always going to kill a few older people ever year, just like the annual influenza does, but we won’t have these huge waves,” Martin Kulldorff, senior scientific director at the Brownstone Institute, told The Epoch Times last month.

Balloux also sees the pandemic heading towards an endemic stage. While many people who get infected a second or third time will see few ill effects, those at higher risk of severe effects, like the elderly, should get vaccinated to protect themselves, he added.

In the United Kingdom, officials long ago shifted away from targeting herd immunity, Balloux said. The strategy is now focused on reducing people’s risk of hospitalization and death, primarily through vaccinating more people.

“I don’t think in the UK anyone still hopes actually to eliminate the virus,” he said. “You might find someone, but not many.”



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: cdc; chat; chatforum; covid; covid1984; fakenews; herdimmunity
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1 posted on 11/16/2021 9:43:52 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

2 posted on 11/16/2021 9:46:12 PM PST by lightman (I am a binary Trinitarian. Deal with it!)
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To: SeekAndFind


3 posted on 11/16/2021 9:51:10 PM PST by RomanSoldier19 (Game over, man! Game over! ; : rem ad triarios redisse is)
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To: SeekAndFind

In Germany, the RKI folks (institute/agency for the gov’t over Covid) announced this week that the term ‘herd immunity’ was now a forbidden term and they would never utter this again in a public statement.


4 posted on 11/16/2021 9:52:13 PM PST by pepsionice
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To: SeekAndFind

Ten years of boosters = twenty boosters......

They can take their hamster wheel and stuff it....


5 posted on 11/16/2021 9:55:04 PM PST by cgbg (A kleptocracy--if they can keep it. Think of it as the Cantillon Effect in action.)
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To: lightman

Nicely played


6 posted on 11/16/2021 9:57:59 PM PST by Nifster (I see puppy dogs in the clouds)
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To: SeekAndFind

They lied in the beginning. They lied in the middle. They’re lying now.


7 posted on 11/16/2021 9:59:22 PM PST by CatOwner (Don't expect anyone, even conservatives, to have your back when the SHTF in 2021.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Sane people would step back and quite the tyranny. Unfortunately we have insane communists running our government.


8 posted on 11/16/2021 10:01:59 PM PST by vpintheak (Live free, or die!)
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To: cgbg

9 posted on 11/16/2021 10:02:12 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

But the vaxx does not stop you from getting the kung flu.....


10 posted on 11/16/2021 10:05:01 PM PST by exnavy (we are not a democracy.)
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To: CatOwner

THE GOVERNMENT HAS A DILEMMA -- THEY HAVE TO CONVINCE THE UNVACCINATED THAT THE JAB DOES WORK, AT THE SAME TIME, THEY ALSO HAVE TO CONVINCE THE VACCINATED THAT IT DOESN'T WORK SO THAT THEY CAN GET THE BOOSTERS...


11 posted on 11/16/2021 10:06:35 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: exnavy

RE: But the vaxx does not stop you from getting the kung flu.....

The counter argument is now not about infection but about protection from serious illness. In other words — get the shot so that even if you do get infected, it won’t be serious enough for you to be hospitalized ( at least for MOST ).


12 posted on 11/16/2021 10:08:36 PM PST by SeekAndFind
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To: exnavy

One of the problems with this epidemic and what will prolong it is that the people who have received this shots all of a sudden feel they can no longer catch this Chinese virus, unfortunately this is false. The only thing these shots will do is to mitigate the severest effects of this crazy China virus. What most people fail to understand is that these mRNA based shots do not work like the old fashioned vaccines like for measles, mumps, scarlet fever or small pox etc.

Once you have received one of these old fashioned shots you no longer had to worry as you were pretty well protected from any re-infections. On the other hand these mRNA based shot will neither protect you from catching this virus, neither will they prevent you from passing it along and quite possible in a mutated form which may be either less or more severe.

On top of it what make it worse is that these new quick developed mRNA vaccines do very little to boost your natural immune system and if anything with each booster shot required, because the original fails to do the job your natural immune system is on a steady decline, with the result that you will catch just about anything in form of viruses what comes along and hits you. Apparently from the current statistics which are easily available to anyone making the effort to look them up, pretty well proves the point.

In country with the highest level of vaccinations such as Gibraltar, Malta, Iceland, Belgium they also have the highest level of re-infections as well as casualties. In other words as stated by some renowned virologist who know what they are talking about, you can not vaccinate yourself out of this epidemic especially not with this type of vaccine which is currently in use and blaming it on he so called ‘Unvaccinated’ will not solve this problem either.

The only way to make any possible headway is by more conventional methods which have been proven quite effective by outright killing the virus such as ivermectin, HCQ in combination with zinc as well as several other supplements to boost a person’s immune system at the same time. Needles to say time is of essence and hit this virus before it has a chance to establish itself.


13 posted on 11/16/2021 10:09:23 PM PST by saintgermaine (Saintgermain the time traveler)
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To: SeekAndFind

So, i never stopped working through this, never locked down. got a very bad 3 day “flu” in first month of 2020. right now there are 25 folks around me at work out with chyna sickness. i have no symptoms. some of these folks are twice vaxxed. i will not vaxx, i will retire first of next month, to many sick people at work.


14 posted on 11/16/2021 10:21:35 PM PST by exnavy (we are not a democracy.)
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To: SeekAndFind

New York City has had it since spring 2020.


15 posted on 11/16/2021 10:26:39 PM PST by ifinnegan (Democrats kill babies and harvest their organs to sell)
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To: SeekAndFind

a lot of vaccine passports (or whatever) include RECOVERED FROM COVID e.g. the following has even more mentions at the link. clearly they recognise herd immunity:

16 Nov: The Local, Germany: 2G rules: How Bavaria is tightening restrictions on the unvaccinated
That means only people who are vaccinated (geimpft) or have ***RECOVERED FROM COVID in the last six months (genesen) can access many public facilities, including cultural, sports and leisure facilities.

This includes gyms and sports facilities, theatres, cinemas, museums, zoos, swimming pools, cable cars, as well as clubs and brothels. Organisers and operators are tasked with checking for proof of vaccination or ***RECOVERY CERTIFICATE...

It comes after Berlin brought in 2G rules on Monday. The eastern state of Saxony is also excluding unvaccinated people from many areas of public life...

People who cannot be vaccinated for medical reasons can be granted access if they present a written medical certificate and show a recent negative PCR test.

For pupils over 12, the 2G rule applies – regardless of the regular tests they have to take at school.
After some criticism, however, the state government decided on a transitional regulation that allows unvaccinated 12 to 17-year-olds to do sports, musical or theatre activities without having to be fully jabbed until the end of the year (the 3G rule will apply here)...

Germany has been talking about another G rule – the 2G-Plus. That means that vaccinated and ***RECOVERED people have to take a test before entering certain public areas.
This is not common at the moment, but the outgoing Health Minister Jens Spahn said last Friday he wants to see this be introduced for public events across the country.
And now Bavaria is giving operators of clubs and similar venues, the choice to opt for a 2G-Plus model – this is also a new addition to the rules...
https://www.thelocal.de/20211116/2g-rules-how-bavaria-is-tightening-restrictions-on-the-unvaccinated/


16 posted on 11/16/2021 10:50:10 PM PST by MAGAthon (y)
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To: SeekAndFind

“Waning protection”!? Were they EVER protective?


17 posted on 11/16/2021 10:51:16 PM PST by griffin
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To: SeekAndFind

I wouldn’t take my chances to be in the most category.


18 posted on 11/16/2021 10:56:11 PM PST by roving
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To: SeekAndFind
"I think thinking that we will be able to achieve some kind of threshold where there’ll be no more transmission of infections may not be possible,” Jones said.

That is the most awkwardly worded sentence ever.

19 posted on 11/16/2021 11:20:56 PM PST by jonrick46 (Leftnicks chase illusions of motherships at the end of the pier.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Is it waning immunity or is it higher contagiousness from the Delta Variant? The research on that question will be difficult and take time. In the mean time, all kinds of speculation, included little green men spreading Covid while we sleep will be the answer we get.


20 posted on 11/16/2021 11:26:13 PM PST by jonrick46 (Leftnicks chase illusions of motherships at the end of the pier.)
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