Posted on 09/02/2021 6:43:49 AM PDT by Recovering_Democrat
Three police officers and two paramedics face charges of manslaughter and criminally negligent homicide, among others...
McClain was walking to a convenience store to purchase tea the night of Aug. 24, 2019, when someone called 911 to report a suspicious person. The three Aurora police officers contacted McClain as he returned home.
When McClain refused to stop walking, the officers tackled him to the ground, handcuffed him and used a carotid choke hold to block the flow of blood to his brain. Officers ignored McClain's pleas to leave him alone. Paramedics injected him with 500 mg of ketamine, a powerful sedative, before taking him to the hospital.
(Excerpt) Read more at police1.com ...
Miami Florida local news, ALWAYS eager to find an opportunity to bash cops, has been hyping this story.
Did the young man comply with lawful orders? Anyone have more info on this story?
Yes, as written it looks like a young man died needlessly. However, I remember the story of an apparently 12 year old Trayvon being stalked by an overly aggressive neighborhood watch white Hispanic, and Michael Brown being gunned down with his hands up as he shouted "hands up, don't shoot!". We know those accounts turned out to out to be myths.
I used to be an EMT - we had to deal with some severely agitated, violent people, but I do not recall ketamine ever being used.
So, I did some scrounging ... this article is why ketamine is an issue ... it’s being used/abused by police to subdue people. I understand they do not want to get hurt dealing with violent people, but pressuring the medics to administer ketamine ... problematic.
August 2020 article] Minnesota Paramedic Speaks Out Against Police Use of Ketamine Injections
Joseph Baker has filed a whistleblower lawsuit alleging that police pressured him to use the sedative during an arrest.
https://theintercept.com/2020/08/25/ketamine-police-use-minnesota/
If the dead man had heeded the Police order to stop he would be alive today. I think many minorities see any attempt by the police to question them as a potential pay day and will leverage it all they can.
You have uncovered the common thread in 100% of these cases.
Since when are EMTs are allowed to inject anything into anybody without their consent?.................
Screw the article. The video on this one is what makes the police and the paramedics look stupid. The guy was basically a retard and the police and paramedics caused his death through extreme negligence and stupidity. The drugs are most likely what were the primary mechanism.
I have been on calls where negligence just as bad or worse resulted in death. One time my crew arrived to find a big fat guy with his feet sticking out of a street drain. The guy was trying to retrieve his keys so he removed the cover and got himself lodged in the drain. When the police arrived he was begging for someone to pull him out. They didn’t do it and he drowned.
Another time a bicyclist got hit by a truck and he landed face down unconscious in a drainage ditch by the side of the road. When we arrived the police were not allowing anyone to move him because they were worried that he might have a neck injury. He drowned in six inches of water.
I am not even going to go into the deaths I know of completely caused by police idiocy. They have a mindset that sometimes causes people’s deaths. And unfortunately some paramedics... as in this case are incompetent as well.
I doubt that these guys will be convicted of anything other than being stupid and lose their jobs, but who knows. The left does not like to let any questionable death of a protected class go without at least a little rioting, arson, looting and death of innocent people nearby.
These were paramedics and they were using a principle called “implied consent”.
When someone is telling you to leave them alone, it’s not consent, implied or otherwise...................
“...injecting anything into anybody without their consent”
Seems to be a national trend, these days.
Denver cops are some of the worst - the standard for hiring is apparently pretty low. This has been the case for years. Aurora cops - don’t get me started about them. One of the things they’re famous for is letting serial rapist Brent Brents out of jail DURING his rape spree.
I can sympathize to a degree - a lot of cops are strongly motivated to do a good job but their hands are tied by a lot of the stupid rules of engagement they have to adhere to. And there’s the union - I imagine having to deal with a union makes a lot of cops’ jobs much more difficult.
The cop union is like the teachers’ union: After awhile everyone who wants to do a good job and who likes his/her job will get run out, leaving the slackers.
Was McClain an african american? Then it is a sure bet that the media have been instructed to once again manipulate blacks intio a frenzy, to maqnipulate the American psyche for taking focus off of biden regime evils, like the Afghan surrender and the open southern biorder. Evil uses the dead soul media like a violin.
When that person poses a danger to themselves or others. A person would have to be pretty agitated: uncontrollably flailing and kicking and punching, that type of thing. Spitting and screaming don’t count.
I estimated the guy’s weight at 150 pounds from a photo. The paramedic estimated 220 pounds, because the math is easier at 100 kg than 63 kg (although ketamine is pretty simple at 100 mg/mL). His actual weight was 140. They administered over 8 mg/kg, but their protocols suggested 5 mg/kg. Management of the patient’s airway and oxygenation was their number one priority after that sedation.
The police reportedly said aloud before EMS arrived that they were looking to have ketamine administered. I hope they didn’t do it just because the police asked for it.
You have got a point there, except when the paramedics or the police decide that you are incompetent to make decisions for yourself as they did here... it is not actual consent... it is “implied consent”. I am not saying that it will fly in court, if someone has raised their voice or given what was considered a menacing look it typically does. The audio in the video clearly indicates that the guy was begging for the police to just let him go home and he did not sound incompetent. He kept apologizing for vomiting and the police kept chastising him for who knows what. The entire episode is an embarrassment.
One time my wife was visiting me at a fire station. A giant mentally deficient black man walked through the door just as we were responding to a call. He told me he was lost. I asked my wife to keep an eye on him until we got back. He was completely docile with my wife, but he was scared. His mom told him to go to a fire station if he ever got lost.
The paramedics that we were working with that day freaked out when they saw him as they were backing into the station and did not see my wife sitting nearby. They immediately pulled back out and called the police and told them that a giant dangerous criminal had broken into the fire station. The police showed up almost immediately, and had the guy face down on the concrete and handcuffed before my wife could get them to knock it off. The poor guy was completely traumatized. What an embarrassment. If my wife hadn't been there to calm him back down, who knows what would have happened.
That probably sums up the situation in a lot of places. But don't get me wrong. I worked with a lot of exceptional police officers. But the bad ones sometimes have a way of sticking together and then things can get very ugly. I actually have more funny stories than tragic. But some of the tragic stories are really, really bad.
> someone called 911 to report a suspicious person <
That’s part of the problem. I get that the police have to respond to every call. And see something, say something. But if the article is correct, there was no crime here. So I can understand why some guy who did nothing wrong would get agitated when stopped by the police.
If the guy doesn’t want to stop and talk to the police, leave him alone. He was suspected of no crime.
“Did the young man comply with lawful orders?”
Did the police have probable cause to detain him? Otherwise their orders couldn’t have been lawful.
“If the dead man had heeded the Police order to stop he would be alive today.”
The police order was unlawful. So what the kid was wearing a face covering? There was no law against it in Colorado and the kid’s conduct was perfectly lawful.
The complaint was that McClain was ‘wearing a mask’. Given that there was no law being broken the correct response from the police should have been, “Yeah, so what?”
Instead they dogpiled him, took him to the ground, did the usual bullcrap of accusing their victim of ‘reaching for my gun’ to excuse their actions and then they eventually murdered him.
“I think many minorities see any attempt by the police to question them as a potential pay day and will leverage it all they can.”
And what the hell is this? Is it okay with you that police stop and kill non-white people for not committing crimes? What the hell is wrong with you?
>>>These were paramedics and they were using a principle called “implied consent”.<<<
If they get shot in the course of asserting this principle then so far as I’m concerned their consent to getting perforated was likewise implied.
> The police order was unlawful. <
Bingo. There is nothing wrong with a cop saying, “Sir, I’d like to talk with you for a moment.”
But in the absence of a crime, if the guy doesn’t want to talk, leave him alone. We don’t live in a “papers, please” country (at least not yet).
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.