Posted on 08/27/2021 8:17:09 AM PDT by Kaslin
As the world watches in horror, the leaders of history's mightiest country are begging a terrorist group not to harm defenseless Americans left in a crumbling, trillion-dollar trap of our own design. Considering we hold all the receipts, it's worth asking how we got here. The main problem, of course, is President Joe Biden's botched withdrawal. It's scary that the people running our country can be that incompetent. Pulling out American troops before the safe withdrawal of American citizens would be a hilarious concept if it weren't what actually happened. Leaving sophisticated American military technology for these terrorists is equally mind-boggling.
If America has any hope of moving beyond its current depressed state, we each need to look introspectively at the role we have had in our own decline. In Afghanistan, as with most issues, there's plenty of blame to go around. The two opposite sides of the Afghanistan debate are the nation-building crowd and the "no forever wars" crowd. Biden's blunder aside, there are questions each side should be asking themselves that they probably aren't.
First, those who pushed for nation building in Afghanistan should explain how the past 20 years were worth the money and, more importantly, the lost lives. After 9/11, America had a right, even an obligation, to target al-Qaida and remove the Taliban government that supported it. However, the failed democracy-building exercise in the wake of that justified action cost too much money and left too many American soldiers killed and injured. It was never going to work.
In his memoir, President George W. Bush said we "had a strategic interest in helping the Afghan people build a free society," because "a democratic Afghanistan would be a hopeful alternative to the vision of the extremists." The problem, now proven, is America does not have the ability to create liberty-loving democracies out of whole cloth. Bush himself said this during the 2000 election, when he specifically campaigned against nation building. The idea of trying it out in a place as complicated, divided and corrupt as Afghanistan was borderline insane. For America to move forward, those who pushed the nation-building policies should be willing to engage directly on what happened and on what they have learned about America's limitations.
On the other extreme is the crowd railing against "forever wars." After the blunders in both Iraq and Afghanistan, most Americans want a reduced role overseas. The risk is that the reaction to excessive American interventionism is excessive American isolationism. The post-World War II era, defined by muscular U.S. leadership and advanced U.S. troop deployment in many places around the world, has been successful by historic standards. The world is always a mess. But you can't look at the past 70 years compared with the 70 prior and argue that U.S. leadership hasn't added stability and saved lives. U.S. leadership has not been perfect, but it has been better than any other alternative.
After spending too many years, lives and dollars, the U.S. war in Afghanistan largely ended during the Trump administration. Since then, we have had a very small number of U.S. troops involved primarily in advisory and coordinating roles. This doesn't excuse the years of mistakes or make the losses worthwhile, but the gains were worth preserving. In the past year or so, the situation in Afghanistan had largely stabilized with as few as 2,500 American troops on the ground. The Afghan army that the U.S. trained, the one that folded like a tent once we withdrew, was largely able to hold its own with guidance, coordination and leadership from the U.S. They had serious issues with corruption and leadership, but their biggest problem was their complete dependence on U.S. technology. The U.S. military trained them that way. It's in America's interest to disrupt groups like al-Qaida and ISIS; having an Afghan army to do it for us (with U.S. coordination) so American troops don't die doing it is better than a lot of alternatives.
The U.S. has thousands of troops stationed all over the world. Europe is still full of U.S. troops. Parts of Asia are as well. Yet nobody is claiming World War II or the Korean War are forever wars. When did zero American troops on the ground become the standard, and is that a standard we really want? Those are questions the "no forever wars" crowd needs to answer. If we could have held a small base in Afghanistan and kept 2,000 troops as advisers to hold off the Taliban, would that have been better than what we have now? On the flip side, if we do face a renewed terrorist threat in Afghanistan after full U.S. withdrawal, are we going to be able to counter it effectively? Will cruise missiles from thousands of miles away really be enough? We can't fly our bombers over without risking conflict with a neighboring country. None of that is easy.
Biden’s to blame, but it is really his handlers. Like everything else in life, it’s not what was done but how it was done. Your family needs money. You need to bring money in. You can get a job or you can rob a bank. Both get the job done, but each brings with it different future events.
It always comes back to 911 for the Republicans and the bushes and why they went into Afghanistan and Iraq
If we really look at 9:11 all it was was some idiots hijacking planes and flying into buildings
They hijacked our American planes from our American airports they didn’t have to do anything
The fact is that 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens
George W Bush in the bushes have their head so far up the Saudi’s ass is that it’s not even funny
The Republicans to their shame keep going “we need to go over there and do whatever to keep these guys from coming here”
This is complete bull crap
If we look in the last 20 years at every active Islamic terror most of them were idiots shooting up on arm civilians in an area where they know that there was a no gun policy
San Bernardino comes to mind
And now it is very clear that the FBI had all kinds of information on all of these incidents long before they happen and either were in on it or did nothing about it
It really comes down to this simple fact: our intelligence agencies have been politicized and are now used to investigate only American patriots
In fact if you look at the Witmer situation the FBI was trying to invent crimes and push idiots into acting like terrorists
I could save many other cases where iislamudfs try to do something and we’re going down such as the draw Mohammed cartoon fast in Texas a few years ago
Islam then Carter
The bottom line is is we Americans are extremely well armed almost everybody’s carrying almost everywhere in the United States and no tourist is ever going to get any we are here no matter what the Republicans tell us over and over that we need to go over the Middle East and take on Syria overlapping on a rack or a red or Afghanistan or Pakistan to make sure they don’t come here again
it’s nonsense
I is all about a bowl of bean soup
Who is to blame? Everyone who has been in charge in D.C. for the last 20 years.
Three words: military industrial complex.
Two more: corrupt politicians
A whole bunch of greedy politicians for allowing a military industrial complex to form & thrive so they could get kickbacks and become board members when not in fedgov.
The left.
Even when Trump was in office, they blocked him at every turn.
Joe Biden is and those in his administration hiding behind his cardboard figure calling the shots.
Biden is the Commander in Chief...he orders the Military.
The withdrawal was not “botched”. Those directing Biden knew exactly what would happen, even down to giving the Taliban “kill lists” of US collaborators. This is all part of the plan.
They want to destroy America, including sending a bitter message to anyone who would help or collaborate with America.
“Yet nobody is claiming World War II or the Korean War are forever wars. When did zero American troops on the ground become the standard, and is that a standard we really want?”
These are good questions. But not for today, while we face the immediate problem of Afghanistan. But for the longer-term discussion, yes, there have been many critics of garrisoning South Korea, a prosperous, well-organized, admirable country, in perpetuity while they compete for consumer market share in the USA.
We tried to win on the cheap.
Special Operations people would call in air strikes.
We tried that for 20 years.
It didn’t work.
We kept their heads down, but we didn’t defeat them.
Go to a village with a bunch of empty trucks.
Get all the villagers out on the street.
Move half the villagers to new mud houses a few hundred miles away.
They can take their belongings and sheep.
You break up the tribes and their supply and spy networks.
Well the forever war question is silly. Yes we have troops all over Europe as part of the alliance, but how often do they get shot at? That’s why WWII isn’t a “forever war”. As for who’s to blame, in the end the Afghani people. They just can’t seem to put it together and become a country.
Bush2 is to blame. Biden just effed up the withdrawal - badly.
We should have never tried to nation build in Afghanistan. Our intervention in Afghanistan should have been purely punitive.
We should killed every member of Al Qaeda we could find, all of their supporters, and anyone who got between us and them (human shields just show you where to aim...).
Then we should have stacked their heads in a vast pyramid in the center of Kabul, told the Afghans we won’t go so easy on them next time, and left.
But noooooo... we had to stay and ‘nation build.’
And this isn’t 20/20 hind-sight, either. I was saying that sort of thing in 2002.
but without bacon
Bush.
He was the “decider in chief” that decided to try to build a nation where none existed and that Islam was a religion of peace against 1399 years of history to the contrary.
Biden cant even stop is dog from biting he is impotent
Carter gave safe passage to the Shah of Iran.
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