Posted on 03/21/2021 6:38:29 AM PDT by Kaslin
How about SEVERE punishment & permanent banishment from public service for those who don’t uphold their oath of office? Caning comes to mind.
Neither of us know the outcome a COS.
We know the rats/never Trumpsters have corrupted elections such that they’ll never let go of power.
I support free government, even the foolish and destructive 17th Amendment which needs to go.
Article V exists precisely for times like these: the renewal of self-government we can no longer expect from federal elections.
As long as the same damn parties run things the cycle of people doesn’t matter. And anybody who thinks sitting Congress critters will vote for term limits just ain’t thinking.
The essential problem with the 17th amendment is that it accomplished one spike in federalism, by changing the nature of the senate from a “representative” body representing the states (and chosen by state legislatures) - acknowledging the states as sovereign entities having their own role in federal decision making - to a body no different than the house - a “democratic” body representing federally voting constituents, and chosen by them.
Instead of the senate truly representing the states, as entities, it became a smaller version of the House, and pushed and pulled by the same monies and interest groups electing members of the House.
On your numbers:
So 80% are not currently “lifers”.
I share your goals, I swear to God. I used to support your movement and helped sponsor several delegate wannabes from my area to a organizational meeting in Wisconsin or perhaps Michigan several years ago I don’t remember exactly. However, we are neck deep in back stabbing two faced lying self aggrandizing reprobates acting like allies that we need desperately to purge before we can proceed, IMHO..
The rules of the Convention requires civilized participation with a common goal not what we have now I’m afraid.
Governments always tend toward corruption. If its collecting taxes someone is skimming, trying to or selling “influence”. No matter how good your founders are or near perfection you set it up to be honest over time it “evolves” toward corruption. It’s the nature of the beast. All you can do is throw sand in those gears. Try to control it, misdirect it, if you’re very clever and lucky misdirect it to a greater purpose but it will always evolve back. Term limits is necessary “sand”, as is repealing the 17th amendment. Easy “sand” when you have executive branch is revoking the EO that allowed federal government unionization as is actual vigorous enforcement of the Hatch Act. So far GOP administrations are too cowardly to do this. (GOP administrations pretend to, Rat administrations don’t even try !)
Radical Amendment Proposal:
Federal employees not only can they not unionize, they give up the right to vote in federal elections. No one forces a person to be a federal employee. Make not voting in federal elections be part of the personal calculus in taking a federal job. I think the Founding Fathers intended that by making the federal district an enclave that didn’t participate in state or federal elections.
I think a similar rule should apply to state, county & city elections. State employee, then banned from voting in state elections, can vote in federal, county & city. County employee then no county but everywhere else, and etc. It would likely require those election to be held at different times, but the gains might out weigh the costs. (Have “voting week” maybe !) However that’s up to those locales.
: )
You said it. We “lose” elections but we’d win there? No chance.
As for term limits you’d have to limit staffers terms too or else they would be a power behind the throne for inexperienced members.
I look at it this way:
We the People have not been challenged to reassert self-government since perhaps the 17th Amendment and certainly the 13th-15th Amendments.
Consider for a moment the various scotus outrages just during your lifetime. Do you think for instance a COS would send an infanticide amendment to the states? How about faggotry and homo marriage? Would a COS elevate administrative law and the administrators to a power higher than congress?
In any event no statutory law can override scotus diktats.
But, a free people in the HABIT of convening a COS every now and then will become covetous of the liberty that it promotes. A people that overwhelmingly reelected Donald Trump is not as corrupt as many believe.
IMO, we need an annual COS a few weeks after Scotus releases its June decisions. Imagine the horror of the people looking over the their shoulders. Imagine a pissed-off people ready to overturn Scotus tyranny!
I could not decide whether to start a new thread or resurrect this old one. Maybe I’ll do both!
In this morning’s mail I received a fund raising request from Ted Cruz stating that he has officially introduced legislation to add a Term Limits Amendment to the Constitution. Now, I’ve been preaching term limits for about thirty years (see my tagline), so it definitely got my attention. BUT...this mailing is he first I’ve heard about the proposal. Have any other FReepers seen it reported?
That is why I suggest that all political contributions be ANONYMOUS. You can't sell influence if you don't know who is buying. Americans should be permitted to donate any amount they wish to any party or candidate they choose; that is FREEDOM. But purchasing an outcome for the donation makes it BRIBERY, a criminal act.
It’s a knotty problem. Individuals would be glad to give anonymously.
Big donors and corporate donors will find a wink wink nod nod way of letting the candidate know & collecting their markers after election.
It is like states with strict gun control and lots of illegal guns. Driving things underground means the criminals are well situated to control the action.
Even if one prohibited Corporate donations there would be a way to pass along value, book deals, seminars etc, stipends for giving talks..etc.
The worst part of the current situation is the sums of money controlled by the leftist billionaires. They can quite literally buy an election. I see it as a hobby for them like horse racing or Warhammer, exciting, challenging, requiring planning with lots of “bought” allies to stroke their egos and stoke their commitment to the leftist cabal. They see themselves as controlling the world, what a rush! They are also not very well socialized individuals tending to asocial personalities who do not empathize with others & see others as expendable or grist for the mill.
Maybe the solution is limiting both corporate & individual donations to much smaller numbers and including pacs and other revenue streams for candidates in that total amount. Lobbyists should not be writing legislature or buying Congress critters with any perks. The issues should be decided on the merit for the American people or to strengthen an industry as a whole. People are corruptible for surprisingly small sums of money.
That’s why you don’t make office ineligibility permanent.
For the Senate two terms - 12 years, then sit out a term before one can return to the Senate. House five terms - 10 years, then sit out two terms (or three!) - 4(6) years before eligibility to return to the House is regained. A uninterrupted decade in DC is enough ! I wish there was some way to force this pretentious professional politician clown posse to go home. Go back and live with your constituents experience the splendor of your governing genius. As a minimum they should be permanently banned from lobbying jobs. Many of these clowns if they had to sit out a few years, get out of the public eye, they’d disappear !
Since we know these “professional politicians” are convinced we can’t live without them. (I mean what would the Kennedys do if they didn’t have voters to bamboozle ? Stay drunk, screw the help & OD maybe !) If there must be professional politicians let them go home and run for governor, state executive offices, mayor, county commissioner & state legislature, maybe even get a job back home (Anywhere !) in the private sector.
No solution is perfect, but I think increasing turnover in Congress is good even if you have to force it. Also from personal experience I think deferring to the “governing wisdom” gained from repeated elected legislative (or executive!) experience is way over rated.
OK, we can agree to disagree here. We both want the same result. I’d like more accountability while in office so the bad ones get thrown out. An ethics committee with teeth run by people not in Congress would be a good start as would mandatory PE at the start of every term with a mental status exam as part of the physical.
It wouldn’t hurt for Congress critters to have to take a basic civics exam to get on the ballot run for office. There are obviously many that have no grasp of our system of Government.
Yup!
And it is interesting that the Articles of Confederation said “The stile of this Country shall be ‘The united States of America’”
It is also interesting that it says “it shall be a perpetual union”, therefore the Constitution COULD NOT REVOKE OR INVALIDATE the Articles.
That’s why we have “The United States”. It is a totally separate thing from The united States of America.
Problem with your suggestion is “Who controls the controllers ?”. Meaning who picks, monitors, punishes for malfeasance the members of your “ethics committee “ ? It effectively would be a 4th branch of government. I’ve often thought maybe a draft of say 7 common folk to sit on such a panel for a year. Again who monitors their honesty? Bribes would be flying & mostly untraceable ! As far as exams go, exams for voting have been ruled in the past unconstitutional. It would be a simple exercise in creative lawyering to extend such a ruling to political candidates.
I like my suggestion not only because its mine but primarily it does the least harm to the current structure of the Constitution. It essentially does no more harm to the legislative branch then term limits did to the presidency. (Banning a return to the presidency after two terms in my mind is acceptable because of the radical difference in power between legislator & president.)
My suggestions as to forcing the cloddish political class to go home and banning them from lobbying is just a wish. Just breaking up their officer tenure is probably the best that can realistically happen.
Term limits sound good, and if people were honest, it’s a good idea.
But then every politician would have a built-in lame-duck period. He’d know that it wouldn’t matter if he supported his constituents and potential voters any more. He easily could be bought and paid for during his last term and it wouldn’t matter.
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