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An Intelligent Discussion About Race and IQ Is Possible
Wall Street Journal ^ | December 15, 2020 | Jason L. Riley

Posted on 12/16/2020 7:53:32 AM PST by karpov

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To: Jim Noble

It gives the warm fuzzies.


41 posted on 12/16/2020 10:04:05 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Re: adopted black kids allegedly having average IQs equivalent to whites.

The only study I've encountered was the Minnesota Trans-racial Adoption Study, and that showed the exact opposite.

Black children, adopted as babies, were raised by middle-class white parents, average IQ 115. When tested at the age of 17, the biological white children tested IQ 109, the adopted white kids 106, but the adopted black kids tested at 89.

And this is after being raised their whole lives in middle-class white families, and going to middle-class schools.

42 posted on 12/16/2020 10:05:03 AM PST by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: PapaBear3625

It was mentioned in the thread that this Flynn was a socialist. Considering he did not know that IQ follows a bell curve, and thought it a serious problem that not all white people have the exact same IQ score, it wouldn’t surprise me if he cited fraudulent studies on adoption. That’s why I’d like to see these studies referenced in the article.


43 posted on 12/16/2020 10:06:50 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Red6

Re: Gays and Suicide.

In undergraduate I was an English major and consequently was surrounded primarily by leftists (though my Shakespeare professors were all right-wingers interestingly, but this was Texas A&M). There were a large number of homosexuals and even transexuals.

Every single one, at some point or another, shared publicly that they had attempted suicide in the past. One transexual admitted to suffering from multiple personality disorder on top of the suicide attempts. She (she dressed like a man) always had either one of two personalities: sullen and offensive or more sullen and offense.


44 posted on 12/16/2020 10:12:20 AM PST by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Vermont Lt

Agreed. Good luck having an intelligent, fact-based conversation involving race anywhere in America. Better be behind closed doors because the vast majority of folks under 40 will destroy your life if you claim it is OK to even ask a question!


45 posted on 12/16/2020 10:16:23 AM PST by Mr Rogers
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To: Jim Noble
It would enormously simplify our social and political issues. That's reason enough. That said, my opening sentence was rhetorical in nature. It seems very clear, at least in my layman's opinion, that environmental and genetic factors are both in play. It is just as unsound to deny the one as the other. The left is committed to the all-environmentalist hypothesis, which is almost certainly wrong and which is antithetical to a free society if one attempts to engineer equality of outcomes via government. (This is actually why the left is enamored of the idea; it is their Trojan Horse against free societies.) At the same time, however, there are still regions of the world in which chronic malnutrition remains an issue. Outright starvation has become rare, but that doesn't mean that expectant mothers and young children in Somalia or Burkino Faso or the Congo are getting an adequate diet.

I can't give you a reference, but I recall arguments suggesting that even in the developed world, it was perhaps only in the 20th century, probably after the First World War, in which the great mass of the population was well enough nourished to begin to approach its theoretical genetic potential, both mentally and physically. A famous example is the great shock experienced by British elites during WWI, when the beginning of conscription brought forth legions of malnourished, often rather dull, physically short and frail young men from the slums, the mining districts, and impoverished rural districts. It was a wakeup call for the comfortable Edwardian elites, for whom the underclass had been largely invisible. People have to be adequately fed before we can even begin to suppose that their IQ scores reflect innate potential.

46 posted on 12/16/2020 10:26:09 AM PST by sphinx
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To: Hiddigeigei

I had never heard that. But Mencken is a favorite.


47 posted on 12/16/2020 11:03:10 AM PST by Vermont Lt (We have entered "Insanity Week." Act accordingly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
though my Shakespeare professors were all right-wingers interestingly

I majored in English at Colgate University and I was allowed by special exception to have a Shakespeare concentration (I was heading to medical school).

If you really, really dig into the works and do not become a far-right wing lunatic as a direct result, it is simply that you were poorly taught or did not pay attention.

Two quickies:

Owen Glendower to Henry Hotspur, to scare him and prevent his attack: "I can summon demons from the vasty deep!"
Hotspur responds, "Why, so can I and so can any man! But, will they come when you do call them?"

Rosalind, turning away the broken-hearted Orlando: "Men have died from time to time, and worms have eaten them, but not for love".

The reason they don't teach this anymore is not because the language is hard (it is, a bit). It's because the plays are a master class in the unalterable facts of human nature.

48 posted on 12/16/2020 11:12:25 AM PST by Jim Noble (Lo there do I see the line of my people, back to the beginning)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

On the studies I have seen involving twins, twins will have nearly identical IQs, even interests and hobbies, regardless of the economic status of their parents or differences in their education. IQ isn’t all genetic, but it mostly is.

........................................................

Dizygotic twins or monozygotic twins? I spent 12 years in public school with fraternal twins, the girl was intelligent and the boy was as dumb as the proverbial box of rocks.

On the other hand, my eight year old identical twin grand daughters seem to be of equal intelligence.


49 posted on 12/16/2020 1:36:42 PM PST by Graybeard58 (The China virus doesn't scare me, Venezuelaism does.)
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To: Red6
Women and their non-deployability rates in the armed services, their horrible retention rates... It may be factually correct, there may even be useful information contained that could benefit that group if applied correctly, BUT it is not allowed in America to have a derogatory connection to a special protected group.

Too many women join the military for the benefits, especially including preferential hiring for civilian government jobs once they finish their enlistment, hence the "horrible retention rates" -- they had no intention of staying in the military.

If you are a "veteran", a woman, AND black -- you just won the hiring trifecta.

50 posted on 12/16/2020 2:39:39 PM PST by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
But success isn’t limited by intelligence, only hard work.

In fact it is. If you have an IQ of 90 you are never going to be a capable software developer or engineer, no matter how hard you try.

51 posted on 12/16/2020 2:42:36 PM PST by Interesting Times (WinterSoldier.com. SwiftVets.com. ToSetTheRecordStraight.com.)
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To: tsomer
One thing it seems hasn’t received enough attention: nutrition. Vitamin D is associated with neural development and is produced by exposure to sunlight. Black skin adapted to high exposure, resists sunlight; white skin developed as people migrated to where there was less available light. Maybe at least part of the problem is a deficit in certain forms of vitamin D

If it made a difference, it would be being pushed.

Research on Vitamin D and black kids could be safely done without triggering "racism" charges, and any positive outcome in elevating school performance would give the researcher lots of praise and status.

There's lots of research out there about Vitamin D and black children. Nothing indicating it makes a difference in intellectual performance.

52 posted on 12/16/2020 3:18:24 PM PST by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
It was mentioned in the thread that this Flynn was a socialist. Considering he did not know that IQ follows a bell curve, and thought it a serious problem that not all white people have the exact same IQ score, it wouldn’t surprise me if he cited fraudulent studies on adoption. That’s why I’d like to see these studies referenced in the article.

It is part of Socialist theology that any differences between individuals is entirely due to environmental differences.

Socialism rests on the supposition that people are malleable, and that the ideal socialist person can be created.

If people are inherently different in their capabilities, Socialist equality falls apart.

53 posted on 12/16/2020 3:22:22 PM PST by PapaBear3625 ("Those who can make you believe absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." -- Voltaire)
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To: sphinx

“Nature and nurture are both in play.”

In the USA, I imagine the large number of families without a father plays a large part.

From the interwebs:

“Today, black children face an overwhelming injustice, being denied en masse the benefits of growing up in a married home. Only 17 percent of black kids make it to their high school graduation living exclusively with their married mother and father. That means 83 percent of black youth are suffering the loss of a parent or the instability of split homes. That’s an emotional starvation rate an order of magnitude greater than any other racial group.”


54 posted on 12/16/2020 3:25:32 PM PST by 21twelve (Ever Vigilant. Never Fearful!)
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To: Graybeard58
Of course in most cases siblings are raised in the same home environment. There was a program on TV once which dealt with identical twins who had been raised apart. I recall one pair of brothers who had been separated when babies. As adults they had some odd behaviors which were exactly the same.

Fraternal twins are no more closely related than any other siblings.

55 posted on 12/16/2020 3:26:00 PM PST by Verginius Rufus
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To: PapaBear3625

I have a son and a daughter.

There is no doubt in my mind that my daughter has a HUGE advantage if she wants to join the government or military in any capacity. If she so much as meets the minimum requirements she has a viable chance in many cases, but my son... not so much. He better be shit hot because he’s competing in a more competitive group.


56 posted on 12/17/2020 7:48:00 AM PST by Red6
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To: karpov
The position of environmentalists that over the course of some 100,000 years peoples separated by geographical barriers in different parts of the world evolved into ten different races with pronounced genetic differences in morphology, blood groups, and the incidence of genetic diseases, and yet have identical genotypes for intelligence, is so improbable that those who advance it must either be totally ignorant of the basic principles of evolutionary biology or else have a political agenda to deny the importance of race. Or both.

-- Race Differences in Intelligence An Evolutionary Analysis, by Richard Lynn, page 160

57 posted on 12/17/2020 9:04:03 AM PST by Paal Gulli
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
"wouldn’t be surprised if Vitamin D—which I think is extremely important for many other reasons—plays such an important role in neural development too."
Interesting observation, but I've read that people in Africa, not lacking in the "sun-shine vitamin," do no better on IQ tests. I still think the difference is largely cultural. Growing up, I've known a number of uneducated blacks that had more common sense than doctoral students I knew in graduate school.
58 posted on 12/18/2020 11:42:17 AM PST by Hiddigeigei ("Talk sense to a fool and he calls you foolish," said Dionysus - Euripides)
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