Vox calls Beethoven's Fifth Symphony 'a symbol of exclusion and elitism’

Washington Examiner ^ | 09.15.2020 | Spencer Neale

[DoodleBob]

You've confused me with others before...you swore I was some other FReeper but was incognito. Good to interact with you again.

For the record, I didn't say anything about Africa - that was your introduction. I'll readily admit to not being an expert on contemporary jazz or blues emanating out of Africa. But, to be fair, I didn't think your commentary was with regard to minorities globally - I thought it was a US-centric discussion. If this IS a global discussion/you want to expand the geographic reach to your "Minorities histories are filled with worthlessness; insignificance; unimportance" comment, then are you arguing that we should dismiss the histories of Americans, who make up a scant 4% of the global population (and yet we account for 24% of global GDP)?

Blues history DOES have a linkage to Africa insofar as musical practices were brought to America via the slaves. But, the rich history of the blues is a uniquely American history, forged by the musicians. This is how the free market works - businesspeople have ideas or products and through their own toil they bring them to market. To argue otherwise would be akin to saying to the black musician "you didn't build that." An argument that the blues blossomed in America because of whites who supported the black musicians, because the same raw material and blues practices were in Africa but there weren't white people, is very Obamaesque.

Back to jazz and blues, which are innovations from black Americans. Now, of course, players that were white et al joined the genres. Thus, if you're saying that contemporary blues or jazz aren't "minority" music, I'd agree. But that does not alter the history or "the legends" who are minorities.

I likely share with you disdain for those who claim that all cultures are equal. American culture, as maligned as it is, remains the last outpost on the way to oblivion. New Zealand, which may look and feel American, is a hodgepodge of leader-worship and anti-individualism. I'd stack up America's achievements against those of India and China, where we are the relatively minority along virtually every dimension. Parenthetically, I consider jazz and blues to be part of American culture.

As for the groups who seek to destroy the culture that made the planet civilized, based on the pictures of the animals rioting across America, I don't think any race can claim to be a majority of that destructive group.

Personally, I'd rather listen to Zappa or Rush or The Who vs Dizzy Gillespie or B.B. King (though Buddy Guy blows away Clapton any day of the week), but blues and jazz are much more additive to society vs World Music or polkas or folk music and stand as a testimony athwart the claim that "Minorities histories are replete with nothingness".

Facts don't bring me trouble at all. Be well.

[blueplum]

“Part and parcel to this attack on western civilization is the persons who are claiming to be victims of it...have no past before and no known history before it. All they have is their ancestors were stolen, sold, and enslaved. As hard as they try to embrace Africa as a culture point, they cannot. So that historic point on their culture scale is lost for eternity.”

I’ve thought about your post and appreciate your discussion. I mostly disagree with the ‘stolen, sold enslaved’ narrative. It seems more accurate to say, enslaved, sold and deported as slaves.

Transactions were between a merchant trading goods and an African king, with slaves delivered to ports that the kings built and maintained. Muslim law allowed the taking and selling of nonmuslims, and later, the taking and selling of muslims, so the kings were acting under their own laws for their own benefit. Unlike kidnapped europeans who truly were ‘stolen’, the individuals weren’t free, autonomous persons but either generational slaves or conquered ‘enemies’ who comprised the kingdom’s agricultural labor force. (Not to diminish that some men also were versed in other skills of the day that gained them privilege and proved of great benefit to the new owners in the colonies).

The kings sold their slaves to be able to afford wars and to maintain power. And as powerful as the kings were at the time, with their own massive armies controlling the populace, it probably wasn’t very common for a random Portuguese pirate to be running through the jungle looking for random persons to capture without being challenged and likely killed for his efforts by the mounted patrols that guarded the kingdoms. So there was no stealing in the true sense of the word any more than an indentured servant in London whose contract was sold to a ship’s captain to be trafficked in the colonies was ‘stolen’.

I do understand the feeling of detachment, tho. Worse than a simple man to man/town to town transaction, it was their own kings that sold and deported them. That’s an immense betrayal. But the kingdoms have long collapsed and no longer exist. There is no touchstone. And no leader in modern Africa is willing to step forward to offer an acknowledgement of Africa’s ‘original sin.’ Whether it be land grants, ‘reparations’ or a simple apology.

Unlike African nations, western civilization hasn’t the luxury of pretending human trafficking didn’t exist; the descendants of those trafficked persons are part and parcel of our national identity. Although admittedly it’s been two steps forward one step back at times, we acknowledged the moral wrongs and have tried to champion equality of all races including passage of many affirmative action laws that allow for preferential treatment. African nations would much rather pretend it was white men running through the jungle, capturing 10 million men one or two at a time without anybody seeing or knowing - even though it defies all time-math and logic. But that is the narrative that is repeated and reinforced. Much to the continued detriment of race relations in western lands and in perpetuating the sense of unwelcome and even hostility towards westerners in African lands and their own lands.

A well-researched documentary on the medieval slave-based west-African kingdom of Songhai:
The Songhai Empire
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfUT6LhBBYs