Obviously, there was never any research done, before they started these insane lockdowns.
Posted on 05/24/2020 7:55:32 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
Are politicians now continuing the lockdowns because admitting error — that they’re guilty of advancing one of American history’s greatest blunders — would mean political destruction? Are they continuing to destroy the careers of millions to save their own (when, perhaps, something more sinister is not at work)? Many may now draw this conclusion after yet another study, this one by establishment company JP Morgan, has found that the lockdowns have done nothing to alter the Wuhan coronavirus pandemic’s course.
As the Daily Mail reports:
Falling infection rates since lockdowns were lifted suggest that the virus ‘likely has its own dynamics’ which are ‘unrelated to often inconsistent lockdown measures’, a report published by the financial services giant said.
Denmark is among the countries which has [sic] seen its R [infection] rate continue to fall after schools and shopping malls re-opened, while Germany's rate has mostly remained below 1.0 after the lockdown was eased.
The report also shows many US states including Alabama, Wisconsin and Colorado enjoying lower R rates after lockdown measures were lifted.
Author Marko Kolanovic, a trained physicist and a strategist for JP Morgan, said governments had been spooked by ‘flawed scientific papers’ into imposing lockdowns which were ‘inefficient or late’ and had little effect.
‘Unlike rigorous testing of new drugs, lockdowns were administered with little consideration that they might not only cause economic devastation but potentially more deaths than Covid-19 itself,’ he claimed.
The JP Morgan report includes graphs [below] showing that ‘the vast majority of countries had decreased infection rates’ after lockdowns were lifted.
(Excerpt) Read more at thenewamerican.com ...
balderdash.
To reduce the spread of the virus, human contact had to be curtailed.
Now, for purely political reasons one of which is fear, the lockdowns in some places will not be terminated
is eradication is your goal. Nice. The only disease to be eradicated ever that I am aware of is smallpox. And that still exists in labs and could make a comeback at any time someone gets a little too careless. Ebola and marburg have not been eradicated. There is a current outbreak in africa for your information
and Georgia has had 4 weeks of being open which is 2 cycles of your longest incubation period
As for being in the public health arena although you haven’t told us in what capacity, so has Fauci. Even experienced infectious disease specialists are laughing at him and rolling their eyes
Here, you are getting into issues that touch on the public health issues, but extend to other areas.
First of all, when we know very little about the spread of a disease, how long virus particles remain active on surfaces, whether aerosolized transmission is possible, etc., it makes sense to have more stringent measures in place--yes, even closing certain types of businesses.
But as we understand better how the disease transmits, then the infection control measures can be targeted.
I am well aware that the left sees this as an opportunity to permanently crush our economy and finally force us all into a socialist dictatorship. So the challenge here is to know the latest research on the transmissibility of Covid-19 and assess whether specific control measures are likely to break the chains of transmission or are spurious attempts to control us.
It is unavoidable that certain practices and behaviors will have to change until we get rid of this thing. Crowded restaurants--not possible right now, but restaurant dining may be possible with modifications. In-store shopping--possible, with modifications. Every single behavior must be considered whether it is compatible with infection control. Etc.
I’ve been saying this from the beginning. If these unconstitutional destructions of our nation were effective at stopping the COVID-19 virus, why aren’t they stopping all other viruses like the flu and the common cold?
“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive.
It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies.
The robber baron’s cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
By C.S. Lewis
On what basis do you say that?
Over the last week, there have been more than 20,000 new cases every day except one, and that day was 300 short of 20,000. We have dropped from the 25-35 thousand new cases daily that we were at last month, but we do not have this under control yet. When it is under control, there will be no new cases.
And you seem to think contact tracing is a good idea?
Of course, since it is the gold standard for eliminating infectious diseases. Contact tracing helped eliminate smallpox and is routinely used to eliminate measles and Ebola outbreaks. A good system of contact tracing will allow most people to get back to semi-normal lives while still taking the measures necessary to eradicate Covid-19.
Actually, that was the initial intent when Trump shut down travel from China in January. As it became clear that the disease managed to get a foothold here anyway, the control measures had to be directly towards the most immediate threat. However, the goal is still and should be to eradicate the disease. We're still in the window where it is possible.
If the public health folks don’t get ahead of this, people will simply end it themselves. And that could well result in more sickness than we would otherwise have to endure.
One of the reasons I am trying so hard to educate people here is that I see that there are quite a few who do not understand the science of disease transmission and control. The public health people are doing a lot to try to control this, but they will fail if enough people believe in unscientific conspiracies and narratives. Because the people who fall for narratives won't do anything to protect themselves or others. Those who do not understand the problem make it worse.
You might have thought you shed your previous political views, but your hard wiring is still intact.
So we have to shut down the world until then, airhead?
I know I should have more respect for a professional affirmative action bureaucrat such as yourself, but I don’t.
So South Korea found that the death rate from all coronaviruses combined is only 0.6%? Fine, but what is their death rate from Covid-19?
Oh, it was 2.383%. I get that from the actual case data.
267 deaths / 11,206 cases x 100 = 2.383%.
The problem with antibodies is that they can't tell the difference between related viruses. So an antibody study is useless for determining who has had Covid-19.
We were told to “flatted the curve,” which means just about everyone will get it, but more slowly, allowing hospitals to treat within what they can handle. This was never, “Stop Until No One Gets It.”
Flattening the growth curve actually does mean getting rid of the disease. That is and remains the focus of the pandemic response, regardless of interim goals along the way. When no more people catch the disease, the curve becomes completely flat.
We have eliminated diseases before, and we can eliminate this one.
You lie. You straight up lied. What you said is a lie, you liar. You should be ashamed.
The beauty of a statistical sample is that if it is done of a general population make up, you can infer it represents the entire population. Thus, South Korea’s test effectively attested to its whole country, meaning you don’t have to test everyone to know, so your “actual” numbers are no where near what the truth in the population would be. You are assuming the only people who got COVID in South Korea are those who had an explicit test.
I cannot quickly find if their test used bad measures, but I can say they used the WHO test for their real-time positive tests:
It’s possible South Korea with the WHO guidance did antibody testing all wrong, but what we do know is that your numbers reflect only tested people, meaning no one not tested had COVID-19 in your approach.
I don’t think your approach holds any water to the truth, on its face. You are assuming perfect knowledge.
Flattening the curve does NOT mean eradication. It means lowering the peak enough that the health system is not overloaded. The health system nationwide is currently UNDER utilized and in danger of bankruptcy.
https://www.livescience.com/amp/coronavirus-flatten-the-curve.html
We have passed the peak, and cases and deaths per day are declining. Therefore what we SHOULD be doing is relaxing lockdown, as long as deaths do not start climbing rapidly again.
Eradication was always the goal. Covid-19 is not endemic yet, so the window for eradication is still open and it is attainable.
Every Ebola and Marburg outbreak in Africa is, in fact, a new emergence of those diseases. Every outbreak has been successfully contained, and the current one will be contained and eliminated as well. Unfortunately, until we can somehow rid bats of Ebola and Marburg, the sporadic outbreaks will continue.
We have eradicated smallpox. We have eradicated Rinderpest, an animal disease closely related to measles. We are on track to eradicate measles, polio, and guinea worm disease. In the US, we successfully eliminated yellow fever and malaria.
I do not know what the rationale is for sitting back and allowing Covid-19 to become endemic while we still have the opportunity to eradicate it. And when we have success eradicating other diseases.
and Georgia has had 4 weeks of being open which is 2 cycles of your longest incubation period
Let's see: Georgia daily status update.
If you scroll about halfway down the page, there is an interactive graph of daily case counts. I am posting a static image below. On the interactive image, you can move the vertical line and examine any specific day.
I do not know when Georgia lifted the stringent lockdowns, but it appears that there was a pretty evident uptick in case counts from May 11 to 19. The case counts have been dropping again. Perhaps that uptick was new cases that occurred after lock downs were lifted and before adequate public health measures--effective contact tracing, testing, and isolation of infected persons--were fully implemented.
I did not realize that using logic, evidence, and analysis are, in fact, liberal or leftist characteristics. In fact, I had always thought that it was predominately the left that distorts science to fit their agenda.
There is nothing political about describing the circumstances of a pandemic. I do not know why you think it is.
If you think we have eradicated measles and polio you have not read a. despaired let alone a scientific journal recently. Ebola has not been eradicated every outbreak is not an emergence of a novel form of the disease. Covid cannot be eradicated we need to live with it. I don’t know where you get your information but I am very glad you are in charge of nothing but spreading fear on the internet
Thanks for the reply, I always value your thoughtful posts.
But, I have to disagree on several points.
First, I think that it’s clear at this point that many, if not most people think that the “deal”, as I previously stated, was to “slow the spread”. The broader goal that you articulate has not been sold in the political arena, and feels to many like a mere power grab, which, in large part, it is.
Further, while we really do have to defer to the experts on the public health aspects, you also should understand that there are other considerations, and we may choose to disregard your advice, as we balance jobs, mental health, economic recovery, and yes, politics.
My position is this: we cannot afford this lockdown any longer, regardless of the consequences. What we need from our public health experts is a strategy that allows it to end with the least epidemiological impact.
At the present, if they (you) can’t or won’t step up, we’re left to our own devices, which look something like this:
1) protect the most vulnerable at SNFs, ALFs and other congregate care facilities with extraordinary measures.
2) protect other vulnerable individuals (obese, high BP, kidney disease etc.) with accomodations for working at home, and minimizing exposure (home delivery of medications, food etc.)
3) universal mask wearing indoors at work, stores, offices etc.
4) improved hygiene practices (hand washing etc.)
5) social distancing when possible
6) improved sanitation of surfaces at retail establishments, offices, other places of work
7) mandatory self-reporting of symptoms to employers, with instruction to stay home if experiencing symptoms
That’s gonna have to be enough, unless the public health folks can come up with something better.
Thanks, again, for your persistence in presenting a contrary point of view. It is most valuable.
Villainy wears no deadlier guise than that of Virtue
/Ichabod Crane - Sleepy Hollow
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