Posted on 05/24/2020 2:18:33 PM PDT by Zhang Fei
The Chinese troops have “come in” about 3 km into Indian territory South East of the Galwan Valley, largely known as Hot Springs area in eastern Ladakh.
Sources in the know told ThePrint that Beijing has also moved in men at the “finger areas” of Pangong Lake while increasing build up on its side of the Line of Actual Control (LAC). The Pangong Lake’s northern bank juts forward like a palm, and the various protrusions are identified as “fingers” to demarcate territory.
Sources said that contrary to inputs of a large Chinese troop presence at Galwan Valley, the build-up is within the Chinese Claim Line (CCL), which is also considered as the LAC at local level.
Sources say that in Galwan, the CCL and the LAC are the same though no maps have been exchanged. They said that the understanding is at local level and Chinese objections to construction activities well within Indian territory was a surprise.
India has done “mirror deployment” on its side, in that it has matched every Chinese move.
However, the Chinese have come in near Patrol Point 14, 15 and the Gogra Post, which is 80 km South East of Galwan Valley, as crow flies, and is between the valley and Pangong Lake.
Sources told ThePrint that the Chinese have not crossed their CCL in these areas but they did accept that these areas are about 3 km within India’s perception of the LAC.
‘No maps in the area’
The patrol points in these areas are named by numbers and Indian troops, a mix of Army and the ITBP personnel, patrol these points from time to time.
“No maps have been exchanged in this area between India and China demarcating what is the LAC,” a source explained. “Whatever understanding that is there is between the
(Excerpt) Read more at theprint.in ...
Yes, I would support India over China anyday too, but that doesn’t mean we have to like being called racists because we won’t open our job market to millions of Indian IT guys.
[Them two get to fighting and its gonna really be something to watch.
The Gurkhas come to mind. Although they are a branch of the UK military forces, they are also within the Indian forces.]
India’s problem is somewhat understandable - its moribund governments have stuck it to foreign investors pretty much since India’s independence on the premise that foreigners are evil. Therefore, foreign investors must be squeezed dry of any benefit they derive from investing in India. Given the high risk and the marginal benefit, foreign investors have therefore steered clear of India. This is why India has lagged China for 40 years in economic growth, to the point that China’s output per capita is 5x India’s. How do you keep up, defense-wise, against a country whose economy is 5x yours?
The bottom line is that China will crush India if nobody comes to India’s aid. That’s where we come in. Between bankrolling the Indians and supplying them, I think we can even the odds. All India needs to do is supply the manpower. I think it’s fair that they should do so, given that this is Indian land they’re fighting for.
It’s partially true
Years ago postcolonial India wanted nothing
of the West-while not allies of Moscow
per se they tread a socialist path and
were “nonaligned” They also insisted
upon majority ownership of every venture
which disincented the IBMs
We the US threw in our lot with the Pakis,
who kept getting their butts kicked by
India so they went to the CCP for nukes
I’m to the point f not being cared what I’m called. Just reply “So?”
China is increasingly acting like a cornered animal...which it pretty much is.
“The bottom line is that China will crush India”
Like the Mongols did?
India will whip China’s ass like the Mongols found out.
The only one in history that managed to handle India would be Alexander the Great. And even he did not take the whole country.
If there is one thing I would like to see is our military form a Gurkha unit.
The Brits have been reducing their Gurkha regiments and I would love to see the US Military take on those the Brits set aside.
“China is a truly crazy country run by lunatics. I remember Vietnam handed them their ass years ago when they did this. India doesn’t mess around either and has been on a war footing it entire existence plus they have nukes.”
A new GREAT GAME. There is a theory on the Sink Vietnam War that speculates the PLA sent the army in with old thinking generals who were removed after they lost in order to bring in new thinking younger officers.
China is increasingly acting like a cornered animal...which it pretty much is.
_____________
this is very dangerous. for everyone.
Very.
[“The bottom line is that China will crush India”
Like the Mongols did?
India will whip China’s ass like the Mongols found out.
The only one in history that managed to handle India would be Alexander the Great. And even he did not take the whole country.]
China defeated India in 1962, declaring a unitary ceasefire and withdrawing only when the Enterprise stood ready to provide air support to India. The difference today is this - where the disputed areas were more or less equally remote for both countries back then, they are no longer remote for Chinese forces. China has blasted roads and tunnels through Tibet in order to make what was once remote, accessible as a matter of routine. That difference means, more than ever, that Indian victory will depend of American aid, much as the threat of US intervention in 1962 caused the Chinese to beat a hasty retreat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Indian_War
And while you are right that the Chinese infra is far better, most Indian troops also have easy connectivity. They are not short of supplies, well acclimatised and well equipped. In 1962, troops from the plains were rushed to the high mountains without warm clothes, shoes and no time to acclimatise. with only .303 rifles and a few MGs. Now there are anti-tank weapons, helicopters and a aggressive nationalist leadership. Its not going to be 1962 again.
No and Vietnam wasnt comparable either.
Your so full of it that its coming out of your ears.
China hasnt the ability to fight a protracted war with any country around the Pacific rim without using their Nuclear weapons at this time.
Because first, they are incapable within their ranks, and second they do not know how to fight a tactical or strategic war.
Now if you want to compare their ability to use unconventional war methods, like what they just did to the USA and the rest of the world? Then you have a point. Since they have no issue with being charged with crimes against humanity...
[No and Vietnam wasnt comparable either.
Your so full of it that its coming out of your ears.]
Because first, they are incapable within their ranks, and second they do not know how to fight a tactical or strategic war.]
https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/03/chinas-defense-spending-larger-it-looks/164060/
If they’re unable to fight any kind of protracted war, then India is likely less so. Re not knowing how to fight wars - they fought the US to a standstill in Korea, and that was when they basically had leg infantry and some artillery pieces. And in North Vietnam, while US forces were engaged in defending the South, the Chinese were present in the hundreds of thousands, providing a credible enough threat of direct intervention that both Nixon and LBJ held back from invading the North to deliver a coup de grace against Communist Vietnam. In 1979, they invaded Vietnam and wiped out Vietnam’s Gold Division in Lang Son, along with 100,000 hostile civilians in the time span of 4 weeks.
http://www.historynet.com/war-of-the-dragons-the-sino-vietnamese-war-1979.htm
The Vietnamese certainly thought they were credible enough a military force to avoid moving more divisions into their area of operations. Since that time, they’ve mounted additional operations that evicted Vietnamese forces from disputed border positions.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_conflicts,_1979%E2%80%931991
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnson_South_Reef_Skirmish
And that was in the initial stages of China’s economic reforms, when the Chinese economy was roughly the same size as the Indian one. Today, that ratio is 5:1.
[India in 1962, was hamstrung by Nehru who worshipped China and by the traitorous commie defence minister who put coward generals in charge to avoid military coups. And did not use the air force at all which could have hit the Chinese hard.
And while you are right that the Chinese infra is far better, most Indian troops also have easy connectivity. They are not short of supplies, well acclimatised and well equipped. In 1962, troops from the plains were rushed to the high mountains without warm clothes, shoes and no time to acclimatise. with only .303 rifles and a few MGs. Now there are anti-tank weapons, helicopters and a aggressive nationalist leadership. Its not going to be 1962 again. ]
The issue for the Indian defense of Ladakh is similar to that in 1962 - the Chinese are better-resourced, this time as a result of 4 decades of rapid economic growth. One estimate is that Chinese military spending is 80% of the US number, when adjusted for salary differences. I don’t think it’s just hot air from Beltway types trying to scrounge up a bigger defense budget by making China out to be a bigger threat than it actually is. If you’ve been monitoring Chinese procurement news, you’ll have noticed that they seem to be doing shakedown cruises of new ship types at what appears to be an interval of every other year. And then there’s the aircraft (manned and unmanned), ground vehicles and so on.
https://www.defenseone.com/ideas/2020/03/chinas-defense-spending-larger-it-looks/164060/
* It wasn’t strictly necessary, but Mao made it a point of pride. Vietnam never fully paid back the money it borrowed from the Soviets to acquire the tanks, artillery and MiG’s it used to invade the South. A big chunk of those loans was cancelled in exchange for the abrogation of the Russian lease for Cam Ranh Bay naval base.
When do we surrender?
[When do we surrender?]
Slowly anti-Chinese sentiment will build up in the local media while the MSM, which depends a lot on ad spends by Chinese companies, will stay muted (sounds familiar?) Social media will again resound to calls for boycotting Chinese goods. Already anti-China sentiments are high because of the Chinese virus. Expect social media to lead the charge against Chinese products. Bollywood is also partially sold to the Chinese, but again there are a few nationalist actors who will make statements and show up those who don't - and those who don't are also from the ROP.
Chinas problem is that taking off from the Tibetan Plateau would seriously de-rate the performance of its planes in terms of fuel and weapons carried. Taking off beyond the plateau would mean inflight re-fuelling making the tankers targets for long range missiles, in an all out war. India does not have that problem. Also, China is perhaps not able to decide what kind of jammers the IAF will deploy - Russian, Israeli or the local ones. Until the IAF is subdued and Indian missile launchers taken out, there cannot be a full scale assault. Indian troops are usually native to the mountains and naturally acclimatised. Not so the Chinese.
India also has nukes and would not hesitate to use them in China or her proxy Pakistan. Nukes could be flying three ways if a real conflict breaks out.
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