Posted on 04/21/2020 7:32:16 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Hydroxychloroquine is being tested around the world to see if it can be used as a treatment for the coronavirus pandemic. As the debate intensifies on whether or not it works, 25 percent of physicians around the world believe health care workers should take the drug to prevent COVID-19 infections, according to a new survey.
The survey, conducted by Sermo, a health care data collection company, found that one-quarter (5,158) of more than 20,000 physicians around the world believe the anti-malarial drug should be used to prevent infections. Separately, 50 percent of the physicians surveyed have used the anti-malarial drug in professional settings since March 25.
“Despite the superstorm of controversy surrounding hydroxychloroquine, it still remains the leading treatment option for severe patients and is even being used in milder cases and patients who are simply suspected of COVID," an anonymous emergency medicine physician on Sermo said in the release obtained by Fox News. "At this stage with so little evidence, doctors have very limited options.”
The survey also found that hydroxychloroquine, which has been used to treat malaria since the 1950s, was used by 22 percent (1,443 instances) of physicians prophylactically by the first week of April.
Some 277 uses were in high-risk patients, including first-responders, and 100 uses were used in low-risk patients.
The findings from the study found that the drug was also used in undiagnosed cases.
Currently, there is no known scientific cure for the disease known as COVID-19 and the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has cited concerns about hydroxychloroquine as a treatment, including cardiotoxicity, especially with patients who have underlying health issues.
The Food and Drug Administration recently announced an emergency use authorization to try several drugs, including hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine, despite a lack of clear evidence of their effectiveness.
(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...
I have never asked for a RCT study. Not one time. If there is a study that demonstrates the drug prevents progression of the disease I have not seen a link to it here. So far it hasn’t happened. A “diminished viral production” is conjecture not evidence. If it were true, that the treatment protocol reduces severity of the illness it would certainly be expected to demonstrate a reduction in mortality. So far, as far as I have seen posted here, and everyone who has a link has posted it, there has not been one study that demonstrated a reduction in mortality. There are many retrospective ways to do this. When one is published I will gladly eat every word. Where is it? I think we deserve to know, don’t you? And at this point there is no excuse for us not to know.
RE: I have never asked for a RCT study. Not one time. If there is a study that demonstrates the drug prevents progression of the disease I have not seen a link to it here
So, I am not sure what you want. You said you never asked for a study, and then at the same time you said: “. If there is a study that demonstrates the drug prevents progression of the disease I have not seen a link to it here.” <— Isn’t that asking for a study?
Which is it?
I did look at the larger study as well. As I recall I shared this article with you as well.
https://sciencebasedmedicine.org/hydroxychloroquine-and-azithromycin-versus-covid-19/
RCT does not stand for Retrospective Yoked COntrol.
RE: there has not been one study that demonstrated a reduction in mortality.
Again, if a patient gets well and the disease does not progress, why does that not count as a reduction in mortality?
Let’s move the discussion a little bit further -— what is your comment about the work of the doctors I listed in the previous post? Do they not count?
Also, you never responded to my other question — assuming you think using the HCQ combo is a waste of time and money, what is your alternative which you believe will be better?
From the link you posted, its first complaint is this:
“Unsurprisingly, the first thing I noticed about the study is that it is a single arm, unrandomized trial with no control group. Right there that tells you it’s not going to produce good evidence for the efficacy of azithromycin and hydroxychloroquine against COVID-19.”
Well there you go — you want a randomized double blind study where one group takes a placebo and the other takes the drug combo.
Dr. Raoult is his interview with Dr. Oz tells us that he is against this approach because it is against his personal ethics.
Almost 789,000 cased of Covid-19 have been identified in the U.S. Of those 73,533 have recovered fully and 42,458 have died. Of the 74,000 who recovered how many were given hydroxychloroquine as part of their treatment and how many were not? Of the 42,500 who died how many were given hydroxychloroquine and died anyway?
I suspect IV fluids, correction of electrolyte imbalances and adequate hydration with supplemental Oxygen or “usual best care” would be as effective as these drugs. If nosocomial infection is a problem that should be treated as it would in any patient.
IOW do all the things we already KNOW to do for critical patients. Adding a drug based on a Petri dish experiment that can in no way be recreated physiologically is grasping at straws.
Or you can learn how to take advantage of Bioactivated Sulfur.
BTW, let me ask you this to move the discussion further along -— WHAT KIND OF STUDY WOULD YOU HAVE PERFORMED TO YOUR SATISFACTION?
Let’s ask the questions further:
1) What are your patient criteria? Who would qualify for your study
2) What is your patient size?
3) How would you categorize who should and should not be given the drug combo ?
4) How would you determine success or failure?
Let’s start with those.
Again, i have never asked for an RCT. A Retrospective Study can be every bit as powerful if done properly.
RE: I suspect IV fluids, correction of electrolyte imbalances and adequate hydration with supplemental Oxygen or “usual best care” would be as effective as these drugs.
And how many successful cases have we observed using this protocol compared to the ones using the HCQ combo as attested by the doctors whose names I just gave you?
Has there been a study on this protocol you just mentioned ( since you are big on studies )?
RE: Again, i have never asked for an RCT. A Retrospective Study can be every bit as powerful if done properly.
Then why did you send me that link? That was one major complaint of the author’s critique.
RE: A Retrospective Study can be every bit as powerful if done properly.
Define “Done properly” for us please.
The only thing controversial about it is that the EEEEVIL Trump mentioned it as maybe helpful...Orange Man wrong!
The problem with polls is that they are polls, not science. Consensus is not science. Polls are political, “Say what we demand or else your job gets it!”
the only thing “controversial” about hydroxychloroquine would appear to be exactly how the pharmaceutical industry can quickly boot it to one side in favor of another 1000 dollar a dose patented alternative.
RE:The problem with polls is that they are polls, not science.
Not if they poll the proper Doctors — those who have ACTUALLY used the Drug combo on Covid-19 patients. Not those who simply complain and say it does not work without even bothering to try it.
Zinc has gone the way of toilet paper, hand sanitizer and disinfectant wipes around here.
One thing I proposed above. Do a computer database search for ALL people on Plaquenil prior to the epidemic. What happened to them? Was it different than what happened to randomly selected controls that were matched for, let’s say across a dozen parameters. Age, sex, race, comorbidities, other drugs not Plaquenil, geographical regions, etc.
Set up the program and send the “computer dogs” hunting. We could know this afternoon. Or a retrospective Yoked Control. Would also be straightforward.
If I can come up with this stuff where are the Nationally Acclaimed Experts?
https://academic.oup.com/jid/pages/Editorial_Board
THESE people? Where are they? What do they have to say? If they trust Dr Raoult why aren’t they singing his praises? If they don’t trust him don’t they sort of OWE us to weigh in here?
You trust me to tell you what a Retrospective Yoked Control Study is? You wouldn’t rather look it up?
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