[momincombatboots]

Did he discuss the trade agreement with china that exposed italy in the first place? Bet they got a sweet deal since trump has held cchina to the fire. Bonus.. they get all those, now over 60 off the healthcare rolls. Globalism..

[joma89]

If so, it is yet another example of ‘lies, damn lies and statistics’ and is the reason I do not trust data coming from governments.

JoMa

[PeteB570]

Well, ain’t that something.

Since I am healthy but have three of the conditions specified as high risk...

...if I get the virus and die it’s not the virus that killed me.

Riiiiiight.

[Alberta's Child]

Back in the 1990s it was common knowledge among diplomatic staff that if they were assigned to some African countries and they died in a car crash or other unfortunate accident, they should expect to have “AIDS-related health complications” listed as the cause of death by the hospital where they were treated. That’s because these countries were using the “AIDS pandemic” as a tool to get foreign assistance through the UN, WHO, etc.

Remember — the first casualty in any crisis is the truth.

[BobL]

I read this theory before. Italy, apparently, lists cause-of-death like we list AIDS - if a 45 year old male has AIDS and dies of pneumonia, they’ll blame AIDS, not pneumonia, since AIDS left him vulnerable to pneumonia, when he otherwise should have been able to fight it off. In other words, the guy died pre-maturely, and that was due to having AIDS - so AIDS is the cause.

I guess we can flip it with Coronavirus if we want - they died of pneumonia, and thereby get our Coronavirus death rate down. Of course the number of people filling up the hospitals and needing to be cremated won’t change, but we’ll be able to tell the world that we have a lower death rate from Coronavirus!

[nikos1121]

“The way in which we code deaths in our country is very generous in the sense that all the people who die in hospitals with the coronavirus are deemed to be dying of the coronavirus,” Prof. Riccardi told The Telegraph.

What he’s saying here is that anyone dying in a hospital where there are people dying from the coronavirus will be counted as dying from the coronavirus.

One would only have to look at what is the daily death rate in Italy, before all this started.

[a real Sheila]

I also read, because of the surge on hospitals and the limited number of ventilators, doctors were having to decide who gets a ventilator - young person or old person. Naturally they went with the younger patient who had a better chance of survival, so the old person died.

[Pollard]

Well technically, not many people die from the flu. They get pneumonia from having the flu and then die yet they go into flu death stats. Bottom line is, most of those people in Italy wouldn’t be dead no if there was no chinavirus.

[AppyPappy]

I don’t think it was a mere coincidence

[Texas Eagle]

There we go. That is what has been missing in all this. Some context.

How many people die in Italy on a normal day? What are the causes of death of those who aren't listed as being from the Chinese virus?

[xp38]

All this is saying is statistics can be manipulated. Finding what is true and accurate is a detective work. We’ve known this from the way political polls are conducted for ages here on FR.

[devane617]

I don’t get this article. It’s clear there’s an uptick in deaths in Italy—grave diggers are way behind, so, why explain the uptick away? This is not normal for Italy yet this article makes it no big deal.

[4Runner]

There is a lot of misinformation regarding Italy on this thread. What I haven’t seen mentioned is the fact that the U.S. and European fashion industry has for years been using thousands of Chinese laborers shipped to sweatshops in the areas around Milan to produce clothing and shoes, some of it high end.

This “arrangement” allows the industry to attach the label “Made in Italy” to these products even though there are no longer any Italian artisans involved in the process as was once the case.

This has been a premium selling point for the fashion industry.

The Chinese laborers live in Italy and periodically travel back and forth between China and Italy. This has been going on for years and is what has made up the bulk of the Coronavirus cases in Italy.

The dirty little secret that continues to be underreported. Bottom line this problem arose due in large part to maximization of profit by Western business owners.

[Vaquero]

It’s the sauseech and a the Braciole. Donta forget the mootsadell.

[null and void]

I'm sure that letting families break quarantine to be with their dying relatives has nothing to do with the rapid spread of Wuhan Virus in Italy.

Bring Out Your Dead

Post to me or FReep mail to be on/off the Bring Out Your Dead ping list.

The purpose of the “Bring Out Your Dead” ping list (formerly the “Ebola” ping list) is very early warning of emerging pandemics, as such it has a high false positive rate.

The false positive rate was 100%.

At some point we may well have a high mortality pandemic, and likely as not the “Bring Out Your Dead” threads will miss the beginning entirely.

*sigh* Such is life, and death...

If a quarantine saves just one child's or one old fart’s life, it's worth it.

[metmom]

Well, since obviously they were still living with the other medical conditions, and they didn’t die until they caught the corona virus, then it would make sense to attribute it to the virus, the presumption being that if they had not caught the virus, they would still be living with their other medical conditions which were not fatal, but still disabling.

And if they did develop pneumonia as a result of corona, then yes, I would consider the corona responsible since they didn’t have the pneumonia before.

I can see their reasoning.

[HamiltonJay]

It’s my understanding. (Perhaps wrong) that the many of thr death are from secondary infections (pneumonia etc) due to the virus, not simply the virus itself.

[MayflowerMadam]

“Italy has the second oldest population in the world.”

“87 percent of the deaths in Italy attributed to the coronavirus and 40 percent of known infections have been people 70 years of age or older.”

Also, a YUGE percentage of Italian men are chain smokers and have been since childhood. (The majority of WuFlu fatalities are men.)

Italian family homes often consist of many generations living in close quarters. (So much for social distancing.)

Italy’s healthcare system sucks.

[CharleysPride]

The two people, Ages 39 and 44, who died in NOLA from CV and had

no pre-existing conditions don’t give me very much faith in the

“it’s only the elderly who have to worry” argument.

[PIF]

Could This Explain Why the Coronavirus Death Rate in Italy is so High?

---

lack of Ventilators. Like the US.