Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Make Your Choice: Medicare, or Coronavirus, For All
Democracy Now ^ | March 05, 2020 | Amy Goodman and Denis Moynihan

Posted on 03/08/2020 7:32:18 PM PDT by artichokegrower

“My co-workers make impossible choices daily because a lot of us don’t have access to affordable health insurance,” Vladimir Clairjeune, a passenger service representative at JFK airport, said at a training session Wednesday, learning to deal with the coronavirus/COVID-19 epidemic. “[We] choose not to see a doctor for a health problem because it could be the difference between paying the rent, taking care of family, or getting needed care.”

(Excerpt) Read more at democracynow.org ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society
KEYWORDS: 2020election; dnctalkingpoint; dnctalkingpoints; election2020; falsedilemma; mediawingofthednc; partisanmediashills; presstitutes; smearmachine
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-27 next last
China has socialized health care. How is that working out for them? The vaccine for coronavirus will be developed by for profit "Big Pharma" that all of the liberals hate.
1 posted on 03/08/2020 7:32:18 PM PDT by artichokegrower
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

The only vaccine they have, they stole from Gilead.


2 posted on 03/08/2020 7:35:29 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Hi! I'm Joe Biden and I forgot this message.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower
We don't need universal Medicare to make COVID19 testing (which is all that a doctor can do about the disease) affordable by all - which we should do as a public health measure.
3 posted on 03/08/2020 7:43:09 PM PDT by NobleFree ("law is often but the tyrant's will, and always so when it violates the right of an individual")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

The only way to get “affordable health insurance” is to have affordable health care.

Which is something of a paradox because expensive health care is largely due to the expansion of third party payers, i.e. health insurance.

Back in the 70s drug prices took off because of PCS plans. When they became prevalent as a benefit for people on nice group plans, unions, government, the cash buyers like myself saw our prices shoot up to essentially subsidize the ridiculously low copays for them.

Never happen, but to get cheap health care ALL 3rd party payers need to go. Cash & carry and costs would plummet. Quite painfully of course.


4 posted on 03/08/2020 7:46:42 PM PDT by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s........you weren't really there)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower; NobleFree; ChildOfThe60s
The Democrats promised that a government health care system would reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell pointed out, “government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course.”

Princeton bioethics professor Peter Singer presented in the New York Times Congressional intent without equivocation. “Rationing health care means getting value for the billions spent by setting limits on which treatments should be paid for from the public purse….There’s no doubt that it’s tough – politically, emotionally, and ethically - to make a decision that means that someone will die sooner than they would have if the decision had gone the other way….The task of health care bureaucrats is then to get the best value for resources they have been allocated….If a teenager can be expected to live another 70 years, saving that life gains 70 years, whereas a person of 85 can be expected to live another 5 years, then saving the 85-year-old will gain only 5 life-years. That suggests saving one teenager is equivalent to saving 14 85-year-olds”.

Under this definition of ethics, a family, doctor, or community of people that brings forward unquantifiable contentions of human worth offer irrelevant arguments for determining the level of healthcare the bureaucracy determines a person should receive. Besides age, additional quantitative criteria can constrain costs. For example, we can measure intelligence, define mental illness and physical handicaps, and identify addictions. Overall, the panel and bureaucracy would decide certain people make minimal or no contribution to society. The access to healthcare would be adjusted accordingly and Congress would make decisions not subject to legal appeal.

ObamaCare ‘death panel’ faces growing opposition from Democrats http://thehill.com/policy/healthcare/316045-obamacare-cost-cutting-board-faces-growing-opposition-from-democrats

Why We Must Ration Health Care http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/19/magazine/19healthcare-t.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

RAW DATA: GOP List of New 'Bureaucracies' in House Health Care Bill http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/11/02/raw-data-gop-list-new-bureaucracies-house-health-care/

5 posted on 03/08/2020 7:55:57 PM PDT by Retain Mike ( Sat Cong)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

We already have fewer medical facilities and hospital beds due to Obamacare - guess these authors believe that further reducing medical capacity would be an awesome solution.


6 posted on 03/08/2020 8:01:26 PM PDT by Republican Wildcat
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

Medicare for All means you’ll never get to see a doctor. Total idiocy.


7 posted on 03/08/2020 8:17:40 PM PDT by beethovenfan (Mene, Mene, Tekel, Upharsin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

Democracy Now is communist/Bernie site.


8 posted on 03/08/2020 8:34:51 PM PDT by datura
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BipolarBob

Gilead doesn’t have a vaccine.

They have a drug.


9 posted on 03/08/2020 8:35:29 PM PDT by Black Agnes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

Medicare for all is a single payer proposition. I am on Medicare and pay 2 monthly premiums. I pay 145.00 a month for basic Medicare and another 27.00 for a supplemental policy


10 posted on 03/08/2020 8:37:00 PM PDT by UB355 (Slow Traffic keep right)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Black Agnes
Remdesivir, an anti-viral drug that China ripped off and are using now.
11 posted on 03/08/2020 8:41:25 PM PDT by BipolarBob (Hi! I'm Joe Biden and I forgot this message.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: BipolarBob

Drug != vaccine

Drug == antiviral, antibiotic, etc

One prevents, one fixes.

Different altogether.

However drug companies make both.

If you already have coronavirus you don’t need a vaccine. You need some sort of antiviral treatment.


12 posted on 03/08/2020 8:44:31 PM PDT by Black Agnes
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

I’m sure Cuba will come up with a vaccine any day now.


13 posted on 03/08/2020 8:55:05 PM PDT by Ouchthatonehurt
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

“ The popular Medicare program, instituted in 1965, provides no-cost medical care for those 65 and older. ”

I must be subscribing to the unpopular Medicare program. I have to pay for mine, plus I paid into the program for 40 plus years.


14 posted on 03/08/2020 8:55:49 PM PDT by HotKat (Politicians are like diapers; they need to be changed often and for the same reason. Mark Twain)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

COVID-19 Update As of 03/07/2020 23:33 PST

- * unless noted otherwise, these figures are EOD 03/07.

These numbers include Mainland China and All Others globally

This format allows you to see trends. I'll continue to use it.

Today's figures will not appear here, because we are not at the
end of the day yet, and all other figures are EOD figures.

        Declared Cases
        .         Declared Deceased
        .         .       Declared Recovered
        .         .       .        Declared Resolved
Date    .         .       .        .        Cases Remining Active
-----------------------------------------------------------------
03/03    93,160   3,198   50,690   53,888   39,272
03/04    95,425   3,286   53,399   56,685   38,740
03/05    98,387   3,383   55,441   58,824   39,563 
03/06   102,188   3,491   57,389   60,880   41,308
03/07   106,165   3,977   59,965   63,559   42,606
It's not that easy to spot the changes in daily growth.
Here they are:

03/03:  2,223
03/04:  2,265
03/05:  2,962
03/06:  3,801
03/07:  3,977
That's a rather prounounced growth rate. These are just the declared cases
but still...

The last column there shows the numbers of active cases. You will note how
they were dropping, then started increasing again. Here are the last five days
drop & then growth numbers.

03/03:   -494 
03/04:   -532 
03/05:    823 
03/06:  1,745 
03/07:  1,298
Resolved cases are still helping to soften the massive numbers of new cases
declared each day.

We are seeing record breaking day to day large numbers. We had one spell where
the cases were larger for a day or two, but those were special circumstance
numbers. There was a reclassification in China, that saw over 15,000 cases
dumped into the list on one day. The following days was also abnormally high
Other than those two days, we've not see days where we approached 4,000 new
cases per day. As of 19:33 today, we are already at 3,869 cases.

As predicted, the mortality rate that went as low as 5.65% on the 27th, has now
begun to climb again. As of 19:33 it is running at 5.81%, but later tonight that
may be adjusted a bit, up or down. Generally this time of the day it's down
but things are too hectic to predict.

As predicted, the numbers of active cases of COVID-19 outside China, became larger
than the active cases inside China. At 19:03 the numbers of cases outside China
make up 56.99% of all cases globally. At that time there were 44,292 active
cases.

Globally we have held our own with regard to how many cases have been resolved.
The figure stands at 59,802%. I expected to see that recede more. We are still
very close to seeing 60% of all global cases declared resolved.

These numbers address the cases outside of Mainland China.

I will provide the same format for the numbers outside Mainland China.

        Declared Cases
        .        Declared Deceased
        .        .     Declared Recovered
        .        .     .       Declared Resolved
Date    .        .     .       .       Cases Remining Active
-----------------------------------------------------------------
03/03   12,890   217     837   1,054   11,836
03/04   15,015   279   1,222   1,501   13,514
03/05   17,832   341   1,685   2,026   15,806 
03/06   21,537   421   1,986   2,407   19,130
03/07   25,470   497   2,871   3,368   22,102
As you can see, these numbers can easily double or more every five days. As new
nations catch fire, the climb will go pretty much exponential. If you like
numbers, I urge you to look at the database I've worked up.

You can study the progression of any category you like.

Lets talk about the United States for a minute. I addressed the issue of the
U. S. catching fire several days ago. There was reason for concern, because two
back to back days saw 46.54 & 45.06 growth. That has dropped back to around
26-28%, but that isn't good either, to be honest. Lets hope things cool off.

The current mortality rate of deceased / deceased + recovered is too high to
take much meaning from. I've seen 14-17% figures, but those are not even in
the same ball park as what the final rate will be.

You can still review them if you access my database. That database has full
figures up until the last report at 19:33 this evening.

There are now 109 nations declaring cases within their borders. 1+

Three nations of the 109 nations or entities outside of Mainland China still
account for over 73% of all active cases outside China at this time. They
are slipping a little, but there is a lot of competition out there. Still
The next tier goes down to the 1,000 - 1,200 level. Those were the EOD
figures for 03/07.

7,134 28.01% South Korea
5,883 22.04% Italy
5,823 23.10% Iran
73.15% of all cases ourside of China...

These are clearly three break-out naitons.

I have a new section that addresses only the cases in the United States.

I have a new metric that explains how many people there are to one case in
each of these entities: Globally, Mainland China, Outside China, and inside
the United States. There is one person in every so many people in each of these entities.

Globally      :  175,665
Mainland China:   77,852
Outside China :  308,248
The U. S. A.  :  637,838
All data below sourced from Johns Hopkins University: LINK

I have been downloading three to five reports per day since 01/27. I have then
worked up numbers that should give a very good representation of numbers that have
been provided to the public via that site.

In my spreadsheet linked below, you'll find global numbers including China. You will
find a separate section addressing just the Outside China figures. Then there is now
also a section with just the United States stats in there. There are also a lot of
special stats broken out for you to browse. The history of 109 nations and their
from day one of their reporting.

You're welcome to it.

COVID-19 Spreadsheet using JHU data

File XLSX

I'd like to apologize to those who may have been accessing my XLS version.

Due to the numbers of nations I am now tracking, the XLS version cannot support
the width of the file I have created. I can no longer provide it without major work.

If anyone wants that version, let me know and I'll see what I can do.

15 posted on 03/08/2020 10:21:59 PM PDT by DoughtyOne (Beware Hillary Clinton and the 25th Amendment.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Retain Mike
...If a teenager can be expected to live another 70 years, saving that life gains 70 years, whereas a person of 85 can be expected to live another 5 years, then saving the 85-year-old will gain only 5 life-years. That suggests saving one teenager is equivalent to saving 14 85-year-olds...

It really depends.

If I think about a group of teenagers that have just mugged, beaten and robbed a 15 year old girl, the highest and best use for that whole group might be parting them out for transplants to save the lives of numerous 85 year olds...

16 posted on 03/08/2020 10:47:09 PM PDT by CurlyDave
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: HotKat

Must be a big secret, this no cost Medicare. ‘cause I sure am on the pay by the month and per visit program too.


17 posted on 03/08/2020 11:14:03 PM PDT by lastchance (Credo.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 14 | View Replies]

To: CurlyDave
Sounds right to me. For this ethical model to work, I think you first have to consider humans as biodegradable carbon based machines without a spiritual component.

I remember riding the bus to work with a group of folks heading to the Pearl Buck Center in Eugene. The politically correct term would be mentally challenged, and I enjoyed their company. I can’t say the same for many of the people I see hanging out a McDonald’s when the high school next door breaks for lunch.

18 posted on 03/08/2020 11:46:24 PM PDT by Retain Mike ( Sat Cong)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower

I thought the liebarltarian said thing whis problem was over


19 posted on 03/08/2020 11:50:47 PM PDT by Monty22002
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: artichokegrower
The popular Medicare program, instituted in 1965, provides no-cost medical care for those 65 and older.

Pardon?

What in the name of algore is this person talking about?

The only thing Medicare covers at no cost is hospice and even there you may have to pay for some of the drugs OOP.

Medicare part A covers 60% of your hospital bills only. You have to buy Medicare part B which costs at least a $250.00 a month and then you need to buy part D or pay for all prescriptions out of pocket.

B btw is NOT optional. It is taken out of your SS check will you nil you.

And let us not forget that there is a 2.9% payroll tax for the 45-50 years you worked before being forced onto this program.

20 posted on 03/09/2020 12:07:03 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (A hero is a hero no matter what medal they give him. Likewise a schmuck is still a schmuck.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-27 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson