Posted on 01/05/2020 6:03:03 AM PST by Kaslin
If the reports are true, then “a tentative plan” has been put in place “to split the [Methodist] church over differences on same-sex marriage and the inclusion of gay clergy.”
In 2019, “The division, which has been brewing for years, came to an impasse last May when delegates in St. Louis voted 438-384 to ban gay marriage and the inclusion of gay clergy.
“A majority of U.S.-based churches opposed the ‘Traditional Plan’ but were outvoted by conservatives in the U.S., Africa and the Philippines.”
Assuming that this split actually takes place, what will happen to these two branches, one conservative and the other liberal?
The answer is easy, based on history and common spiritual sense.
History says that the conservative branch will grow and the liberal branch will diminish.
This has been the pattern for decades, as I documented in 2015, citing a major study dating back to 1972 written by Dean M. Kelley: Why Conservative Churches are Growing: A Study in Sociology of Religion.
As Kelly wrote almost 50 years ago, “Amid the current neglect and hostility toward organized religion in general, the conservative churches, holding to seemingly outmoded theology and making strict demands on their members, have equaled or surpassed in growth the early percentage increases of the nation’s population.”
As for the liberal churches, he noted, “The mainline denominations [which were becoming increasingly liberal] will continue to exist on a diminishing scale for decades, perhaps for centuries, and will continue to supply some people with a dilute and undemanding form of meaning, which may be all they want.”
For a host of reasons, this pattern will continue with the two Methodist branches.
The conservative branch, preaching the Scriptures without apology, adhering to timeless moral values, and offering adherents a true encounter with the risen Lord, will gain members.
The liberal branch, reinterpreting the Scriptures and apologizing for the Bible and redefining morality, will lose members.
As I pointed out in my 2015 article, “Writing in the Federalist in August, 2014, Alexander Griswold noted that, “Every major American church that has taken steps towards liberalization on sexual issues has seen a steep decline in membership.” (His article was titled, “How to Shrink Your Church in One Easy Step.”)
More broadly, this is confirmed by data just released by the Center for the Study of Global Christianity.
Roughly 120 years ago, the Center claims that there were about 80 million Evangelicals and less than 1 million Pentecostals/Charismatics worldwide. (These terms might be anachronistic for the year 1900, but they are being used to trace particular groups over the last 120 years. And, of course, there is overlap between the two groups, which are both very conservative theologically.)
Today, those numbers, globally, are put at 354 million Evangelicals and 694 million Pentecostals/Charismatics. Projection for 2050 puts these groups at 581 million and 1 billion, 89 million respectively.
This is the growth-curve of Bible-based Christianity, especially one that emphasizes the ongoing ministry of the Spirit.
The Center’s data, does not isolate liberal denominations, so their decline cannot be pointed to in the chart linked here. But further confirmation comes from a January 4, 2017 article in the Washington Post, which noted that, “Liberal churches are dying. But conservative churches are thriving. A Canadian study found that conservative churches are still growing, while less orthodox congregations dwindle away.”
No surprise in the least.
To be sure, if the conservative congregations are hypocritical, dead, and legalistic, they too will dwindle away. But if they preach Jesus, welcome the Spirit, exalt the Word, and reach out to their community, they will thrive.
And this leads us to the subject of spiritual common sense.
The liberal branch will become more liberal.
Specifically, they will question some of the fundamental tenets of the faith (including the inspiration of the Scriptures, the virgin birth and the resurrection, the second coming, and more; much of this is happening already). They will become more universalistic (meaning, salvation is not exclusively through Jesus). And they will move further and further away from biblical morality.
In short, fidelity to LGBT activism will trump fidelity to God’s Word.
Watch and see. (For a recent, shocking example from Sweden, see here.)
In contrast, the conservative churches will remain steady, since they are not reacting. They are simply maintaining their historic stance, believing what John Wesley, the founder of the Methodists believed, and affirming what Jesus and Paul taught.
As one African Methodist leader stated in early 2019, “I’m happy to go back to old ladies and old men in villages who received the Bible from missionaries and let them know that the Bible hasn’t changed.”
In the end, while it is sad to see division and separation, some of it is necessary and even for the best.
When it comes to the Methodist Church, as the years unfold, it will be not be seen so much as a separation between fellow-Christians.
Instead, it will be seen as a separation between the wheat and the weeds or the sheep and the goats, to use the imagery of Jesus.
Watch and see.
Oh well that does show their motive.
I’ve visited almost all of the missions here in California. Most are still operating churches and almost all have gift shops selling it crucifixes, rosaries, saints images, books, and a large variety of similar items. I don’t see any problem with that at all. My parish is the largest in our diocese. No gift shop, but I’ll bet we almost have enough bodies to support a small gift shop. I’d have no problem if we opened one on our campus
I’ve often said the church will break on the fulcrum of homosexuality.
RE church gift shops...
Ok...I could be wrong about gift shops. It would definitely save a trip to Barnes & Noble, plus any profits would go to the home church. That’s just not something I was used to. I could see my wife buying one of those big spiral-bound calendars...with various religious pictures plus dates plugged in already.
In time there will develop African and Asian “missionaries” to the U.S. from the “traditional” churches.
What I object to most about what mainly the bishops pushed and got their mini-conference to agree to is (a) the Liberals get to keep the “United Methodist Church” label, and all that represents, while those not wishing to “stay” will form a new denomination, in spite of (b) a MAJORITY of the whole UMC at its last general conference - its main decision making body - voted AGAINST the changes the Liberals wanted, and to keep the UMC what it is, officially, which is TRADITIONALIST. So how do the “losers” get to keep the church, and the winners have to declare themselves the leavers??? THAT I don’t like, and maybe this complaint will be heard at the deciding general conference and reverse who it is that is “staying” UMC and who must declare they are leaving.
“In the divorce, which side will control the bank account and ownership of the real property?”
Churches - congregations - that split off are supposed to be able to take title to their property - by the terms of the decision that was announced.
Look you’re either a Bible-based church or you’re not
you start going outside of traditional marriage and 10 commandments - you’re not a Bible-based church as might as well call yourself something else.
In my view. The church is lost. Only faith in Christ is necessary
“In time there will develop African and Asian “missionaries” to the U.S. from the “traditional” churches.“
Happening since at least 13 years ago...
https://www.dallasnews.com/news/faith/2007/10/18/mohler-on-african-missionaries-to-america/
Homosexuality is breaking not only apostate denominations, but also individual (were) Christians directly.
How many mothers were biblically anti-sodomy, then ‘woke’ after a child ‘came out of the closet’ (such a nice euphemism for admitting to being homosexual).
Now, Mom’s a SJW for faggotry, and probably stopped attending worship. Dad’s tend to struggle a lot more with it, from what i’ve seen and read.
Satan loves homosexuality.
So, too, do Korean Christians.
“In time there will develop African and Asian “missionaries” to the U.S. from the “traditional” churches.“
I guess I should have used one additional word - “more”; believing that will now increase.
Only a rabid Catholic bigot could twist problems with the Methodist Church into a slam on Catholicism.
Only a rabid Catholic could twist THIS ---> The Vatican has a gift shop into a slam on Catholicism.
Methodist / former Methodist ping!
To be added to or dropped from this list, freepmail Albion Wilde
I am a traditional Methodist and am most certainly not "woke." Unfortunately, that's not the case with many of our clergy, in particular those who graduated from the Claremont School of Theology, a hotbed of "wokeness."
Our church recently had a Korean pastor who attended the traditionalist Fuller Theological Seminary and whose sermons were Bibliocentric, but our latest shepherd, a Claremont product, is thoroughly "woke."
-— So how do the “losers” get to keep the church, and the winners have to declare themselves the leavers??? THAT I don’t like, and maybe this complaint will be heard at the deciding general conference and reverse who it is that is “staying” UMC and who must declare they are leaving. -—
Wuli, you are exactly right. After the liberal bishops and clergy stacked the deck so the so-called “Way Forward” would be the liberal way, and not the Traditional Plan, they were shocked to lose the vote at the convention. They reacted as typical libs do, and wanted a do-over with a stacked resolution like this. To heck with that! Let them leave and believe and act in any way they think best. Just don’t give them the benefit of sullying the Methodist name any more than we all already have done.
Just like in politics, liberals never sleep, they never stop, they never ever quit. (Of course, they are never happy, either, but that’s a different story.)
Oldplayer
>> In the divorce, which side will control the bank account and ownership of the real property?
>>Will individuals profit from the sale of real property or will the proceeds go to like-minded entity.
>>Follow the money.
Follow the Holy Spirit. The Conservative Methodists can make the money up again and be free of the Humanists that infest the current UMC, both in the pew and the pulpit.
I especially pray that the new church will take some time to examine the roots of Methodism that include both Wesley and Whitefield. If they stick with pure Wesley, they will just be reinfested almost immediately with the same Humanists.
Over react much? I grew up Catholic and have been a Methodist for the last 30 years.
Stating the fact that there is a gift shop at the Vatican isn’t an attack on either church.
Work on your grace, honey.
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