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United Methodism Moves toward Separation (Denominational Split becomes more certain)
Institute of Religion and Democracy ^ | 3 Jan 2020 | Mark Tooley

Posted on 01/03/2020 10:42:52 AM PST by xzins

United Methodism moved closer to formal schism with a new proposal released today negotiated with liberal and conservative groups, including bishops. The plan would divide the nearly 13 million member global denomination into separate conservative and liberal communions.

The mediator for these negotiations was Kenneth Feinberg, the Washington, D.C. attorney best known as Special Master of the September 11th Victim Compensation Fund.

Under this plan, conferences (Methodism’s version of dioceses or presbyteries) could vote by 2021 to join the conservative denomination by a 57% vote. Local churches by 2024 could vote by majority. The conservative denomination would get $25 million from current denominational assets.

If the quadrennial General Conference approves this plan in May, when it meets in Minneapolis, the two separate denominations would start there immediately, with separate General Conferences. The liberal church of course would delete United Methodism’s current affirmation of sex only within male/female marriage.

This denominational schism would be historic and largely the first of its kind since the 1840s when Methodists and Baptists divided regionally over slavery.

It’s likely the General Conference, even if it approves this plan, will amend it.

My prediction: General Conference will approve a version of this plan. During several subsequent years of sorting, United Methodism’s current 6.7 million members in the USA will drop to about 6 million. About 2.5 million will join the conservative church, and about 3.5 million will be in the liberal church. Nearly all the 5.5 million overseas members, mostly in Africa, will join conservative church, so the conservative denomination will have about 8 million members globally.

This process will be messy and often tragic. Many local congregations will divide and die. But United Methodism is already dying in America. This division will allow evangelistic-minded Methodism to plant new congregations and grow. American Christianity and society desperately need a theologically cohesive rejuvenated Methodism.

I’m looking forward to participating in a Methodist revival!


TOPICS: Front Page News; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: abortion; belongsinreligion; faithandphilosophy; gayagenda; genderdysphoria; globalwarminghoax; greennewdeal; homosexualagenda; infanticide; medicareforall; methodists; notanewstopic; obamacare; split; umc; unitedmethodist
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To: MacNaughton

I am probably trying a synagogue next.


61 posted on 01/03/2020 2:14:59 PM PST by yldstrk (Bingo! We have a winner!)
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To: Wuli

It would seem that the conservative leadership could bring up (and insist on) the great point/s you made.


62 posted on 01/03/2020 2:16:53 PM PST by Jane Long (Praise God, from whom ALL blessings flow.)
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To: BipolarBob

The Divided Methodist Church.


63 posted on 01/03/2020 2:25:46 PM PST by MeganC (There is nothing feminine about feminism.)
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To: Albion Wilde

A large part of me says, “Pardon me - who says WE scriptural, orthodox Methodists are leaving?”


64 posted on 01/03/2020 2:26:13 PM PST by jagusafr
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To: BipolarBob

Kind of makes you wonder what the liberal and conservative factions will call themselves?


65 posted on 01/03/2020 2:28:28 PM PST by ducttape45 ("Righteousness exalteth a nation; but sin is a reproach to any people." Proverbs 14:34)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I agree, I could see slavery in the 1840’s being reason for a split. It is an example how unfocused we have become. Sexuality is an important part of being human but in the last 60 years it has become a sick obsession. It makes me wonder if all of this is more than a question on religion and is just a question of the subversion of our morals and society. I am against this and would welcome a hard breakup of the UMC. A stand must be taken for what is right .


66 posted on 01/03/2020 2:28:55 PM PST by Destroyer Sailor (Revenge is a dish best served cold.)
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To: MinuteGal; Charles Henrickson

Ping.

You may say, “we told you so”!


67 posted on 01/03/2020 2:29:08 PM PST by lightman (The Millenials are asleep in their "wokeness".)
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To: Destroyer Sailor
I agree, I could see slavery in the 1840’s being reason for a split. It is an example how unfocused we have become. Sexuality is an important part of being human but in the last 60 years it has become a sick obsession. It makes me wonder if all of this is more than a question on religion and is just a question of the subversion of our morals and society. I am against this and would welcome a hard breakup of the UMC. A stand must be taken for what is right .

Much of Christendom's establishment has become voluntarily enslaved to sexual passions.

68 posted on 01/03/2020 2:34:21 PM PST by lightman (The Millenials are asleep in their "wokeness".)
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To: yldstrk
May I invite you to visit the Lutheran Church–Missouri Synod (LCMS), the orthodox, Bible-believing church founded on the teachings and catechism of Martin Luther. Scripture is the only source of doctrinal authority in the LCMS. There are no women pastors. It's great to see many men and multi-generational families participating in the services and missions of the LCMS.

LCMS web site

LCMS congregations and schools locations

69 posted on 01/03/2020 2:40:05 PM PST by Albion Wilde (It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it. --Douglas MacArthur)
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To: ducttape45

Straight Methodist Church vs. Rainbow Pride Methodist Church I suppose.


70 posted on 01/03/2020 2:48:12 PM PST by BipolarBob (DNC: The party of pernicious knids, wangdoodles and hornswogglers.)
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To: jagusafr
A large part of me says, “Pardon me - who says WE scriptural, orthodox Methodists are leaving?”

Time to fight. Traditionals are in the minority in the US, but are bolstered every four years at the General Conference by the Africans. But they go home again, and the national organization is equivalent to the Deep State -- full of radical leftists. Try to exercise the rule of law and fair play and see what happens from the entrenched hippie/prog/commies. But it may be a fight worth having. Certainly it will make people question, pray, articulate and define their faith, and investigate what Wesley, and more importantly, what Jesus Christ, intends for his church.

I left some years ago when my kid was an adolescent, after several highly inappropriate gay-favoring incidents from a succession of pastors. I couldn't have that exposure during the teenage years. After being in a family of five generations of Methodists, it was like a divorce for me, but now we are both so much better off in a clearly Bible-affirming, apostolic church.

71 posted on 01/03/2020 2:49:55 PM PST by Albion Wilde (It is fatal to enter any war without the will to win it. --Douglas MacArthur)
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To: DoodleDawg

Because it was being obstructed


72 posted on 01/03/2020 2:54:04 PM PST by xzins (Retired US Army chaplain. Support our troops by praying for their victory.)
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To: Wuli

I believe getting separated is more important than dollars


73 posted on 01/03/2020 2:55:36 PM PST by xzins (Retired US Army chaplain. Support our troops by praying for their victory.)
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To: Jane Long

See #73


74 posted on 01/03/2020 2:56:47 PM PST by xzins (Retired US Army chaplain. Support our troops by praying for their victory.)
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To: DoodleDawg

In Presbyterian circles, the conservative PCA, originally a group of mostly Southern congregations, left the liberal PCUSA 47 years ago. it started out with 41,000 members and 260 congregations. As of 2018, the PCA has over 1,900 congregations and 395,000 members. Counting in other, smaller conservative Presbyterian denominations, there are probably close to a half million members, numbers that begin to approach those of the shrinking PCUSA. I would imagine a conservative Methodist body would have similar outcomes.


75 posted on 01/03/2020 3:15:23 PM PST by Wallace T.
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To: xzins

“I believe getting separated is more important than dollars.”

To Conservatives no doubt, but to the Liberals they have so much VESTED political interest in the Liberal programs administered through the predominately Liberal UMC HQ agencies, which use funds from all the UMC conferences. Proportionately dividing up THOSE funds by the global UMC general conference proportions WILL cut into those Liberal programs, and the Liberal UMC HQ agencies budgets.


76 posted on 01/03/2020 3:15:56 PM PST by Wuli
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To: xzins

I just looked up some data on the split in the Episcopal Church USA.

The Anglican Church in North America, the traditionalists and conservatives, set up their own denomination in 2009.

Just looking at data from 2013 and 2018, this is what has happened.

Average Sunday attendance in the Episcopal Church has declined from 611,686 in 2013 to 531,958 in 2018. (I’m not counting membership as it is greatly inflated in the Episcopal Church. So Average Sunday attendance is a better measure.)

Average Sunday attendance in the Anglican Church of North America has increased from 65,885 to 88,048.

So, in 2013, ACNA Sunday attendance was about 11% of the attendance at the Episcopal Church.

But by 2018, only five years later, ACNA Sunday attendance had risen to close to 17%.

One can see on that trajectory over the course of a two decades, ACNA will surpass the Episcopal Church in size, although it will still be smaller than the Episcopal Church was in 2013.

Here are the details:

If ACNA grows 7% a year, it will have average Sunday attendance of 192,000 by 2028 and 403,000 in 2038.

Meanwhile the Episcopal Church would decline by 2.6% a year to 407,000 in 2028 and down to 309,000 in 2038.

In 30 years, ACNA would have 618,000 average Sunday attendance and be larger than the Episcopal Church was in 2013. The Episcopal Church would have 266,000 average Sunday attendance.

ACNA would be more that twice the size of The Episcopal Church, which would be less than half its size in 2013.

Of course no trend goes on forever at the same level so none of this is likely to work out this way. But it gives you some idea of where diverging growth rates can take things.

One more caveat: I’m sure my math is probably off a bit, so feel free to blast away at my calculations.


77 posted on 01/03/2020 3:18:03 PM PST by WashingtonSource
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To: xzins; Impy; BillyBoy; LS; NFHale; GOPsterinMA; campaignPete R-CT; AuH2ORepublican; Clemenza; ...

Time to separate the Sodomite Stalinist Satanists from the Christians.


78 posted on 01/03/2020 3:30:37 PM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Dear Mr. Kotter, #Epsteindidntkillhimself - Signed, Epstein's Mother)
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To: lightman
37 I am hoping for a better outcome for orthodoxy and orthopraxis from this national judicatory meeting in Minneapolis. The ELCA disaster of August 2009 happened in that city as a tornado touched down across the street from the venue.

On 8/19/2009, severe thunderstorms formed in Iowa and the Dakotas. The storms moved to the north and east during the day, spreading into Wisconsin and Minnesota. At 1:50 pm CDT, an EF0 tornado touched down in south Minneapolis, Minnesota, uprooting trees and causing minor structural damage to buildings, including Minneapolis' neo-Gothic-styled Central Lutheran Church. The tornado continued north-northwest for 4.5 miles (7 km) before dissipating near the Minneapolis Convention Center in downtown Minneapolis where the ELCA Churchwide Assembly was being held.[32]

The coincidence of this tornado with the day of the 2009 ELCA Churchwide Assembly's vote on the Social Statement "Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust" sparked an increased interest in the Assembly across social media, local print and broadcast news, the religious blogosphere, and a few national-level media outlets including the magazine Christianity Today[33] and a blog by the religion editor of The Washington Times.[34] While this was the first significant tornado to strike the city of Minneapolis since June 14, 1981,[32] ten additional tornadoes also touched down that day in eastern Minnesota and western Wisconsin.

79 posted on 01/03/2020 3:55:43 PM PST by MacNaughton
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To: Wuli

And it will delay getting free of the Lgbtq crowd for about a decade of legal fighting


80 posted on 01/03/2020 4:03:41 PM PST by xzins (Retired US Army chaplain. Support our troops by praying for their victory.)
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