Posted on 12/05/2019 7:01:33 PM PST by SeekAndFind
Impeachment is not tearing the country apart. Impeachment is tearing the demonicRAT Party apart. Couldn’t happen to a more despicable group of scumbags.
Whatcha think, seek?
There gonna be more?
RE: Whatcha think, seek? There gonna be more?
Yes, I think there will be more however, the number of anti-impeachment Dems will not be enough to overcome the 218 number, which Pelosi will get.
It will die in the Senate and prove to be a huge waste of time.
The DEMs will strategically allow certain House DEMs to vote against impeachment, but it will pass. People here need to stop being like Charlie Brown running towards the football teed up by Lucy.
What’s cnn?
Never trust CNN.
The Congressmen defending the President are dedicated and talented but I marvel that nobody has addressed the primary issue in the two inquiries so far.
I refer to President Trump’s INTENT or MOTIVE. Why did he ask the favor?
The Democrat Congressmen and every witness so far were allowed to assert that the President was asking a favor of a foreign head of state in order to help him defeat a political rival, Joe Biden. Not once have I heard any Republican challenge this “BIG LIE.” Instead, they trot out the same weak arguments about whether there was a “quid pro quo” over and over and ignore the more relevant issue of intent.
To illustrate the point, consider the following two hypotheticals:
1. The President asks Ukraine’s President for help in defeating Joe Biden at the ballot box, there is no conditionality, arm twisting or “quid pro quo” associated with the request. Even though the President didn’t establish a “This for That” transaction to get the favor he requested, most would agree that the President would be guilty of something that might indeed be impeachable.
2. Conversely, envision that the President asks for help investigating some US corruption involving Ukraine. He attaches all sorts of conditionality, and whatever sort of arm-twisting he has at his disposal but the President’s motive was a reflection of his belief that US laws were broken in a fraudulent effort to reverse the 2016 election. Further, he felt that a former US official had behaved very corruptly and felt that justice needed to be done. In this scenario, the President’s motive remains the same whether his belief is accurate or not. His motives aren’t corrupt and there is no crime.
These two scenarios highlight that the presence or absence of a “quid pro quo” arrangement is irrelevant in determining the President’s guilt.
INTENT IS ULTIMATELY ALL THAT MATTERS!!
I’m waiting for Jordan to say “You clearly believe you can read the President’s mind. BUT isn’t it conceivable that the President was acting on his belief that he was the victim of a fraudulent and corrupt conspiracy and was keeping his promise to ‘Make sure that this doesn’t ever happen to another President?’ On the campaign trail, President Trump promised repeatedly to ‘Drain the swamp!’ When he sees a video of Joe Biden who seemed to be bragging about engaging in corrupt behavior, weren’t the President’s motives possibly free of corrupt intent since ensuring that US laws are obeyed is part of his job description? Is Biden above the law now that he is a candidate? Is a person free to rob a bank as soon as he runs for Sherriff?”
In the first hearings before the Intelligence Committee, only Democrat Rep. Castro even touched on intent when he mentioned the 2016 Ukrainian/DNC rationale as a “debunked conspiracy theory.” Nobody picked up on Castro’s backhanded defense of the President there, Clearly, If President Trump believed a “debunked conspiracy theory” and wanted it investigated, then the President wasn’t asking for help fighting a political rival. Right or wrong, his motive was virtuous.
I thought the Democrats were unanimous on this.
RE: I thought the Democrats were unanimous on this.
They were not even unanimous on the original House Intelligence impeachment hearings chaired by Shifty Schiff.
when do they vote for Speaker 2020 ?
Depends on what kind of blackmail peeelosi can use on demo-rats and rinos.
Nancy will get them to vote for impeachment anyway.
The 30 or so vulnerable democrats in 2020 will get a talking-to by Nancy, explaining to them that, ‘what have they got to lose anyway?’. It’s a presidential election year, and those democrat seats in red states were going to be lost anyway, so, she’ll convince them that they have nothing to lose, so, she’ll plead with them to vote yes on impeachment.
Pelosi is planning to retire after the 2020 election and wants to go out with a blast. She’s got nothing to lose either. And, she’ll be sticking it to her democrat buddies who forced her to go for impeachment. Trump will still be president after 2020, and she’ll be saying to her democrat caucus that, “I told you not to go there, but you insisted!”.
Now is the time for the Democrat leaders to go to President Trump and confess.
He’s a reasonable man.
The Democrat leaders are only making things worse for themselves.
Good comment. That hits the ten ring.
.....2. Conversely, envision that the President asks for help investigating some US corruption involving Ukraine.
Yup. Even Turley thinks that Trump did something wrong, ignoring your second scenario.
SMH
Rooney is my rep. He’s a “moderate”. He’s retiring and I have yet to receive a single correspondence from anyone who is prepared to contest for his seat. This to me is very curious. Usually, within a few weeks of an announced retirement you get numerous requests for support from X, Y, or Z candidate. So far, crickets.
RE: Conversely, envision that the President asks for help investigating some US corruption involving Ukraine. He attaches all sorts of conditionality, and whatever sort of arm-twisting he has at his disposal but the President’s motive was a reflection of his belief that US laws were broken in a fraudulent effort to reverse the 2016 election.
____________________________________
Let me copy and paste the so-called offending statement made by Trump in his call with Ukraine’s President Zelensky... here it is:
The President: “I would like you to do us a favor though because our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it. I would like you to find out what happened with this whole situation with Ukraine, they say Crowdstrike... I guess you have one of your wealthy people... The server, they say Ukraine has it. There are a lot of things that went on, the whole situation.”
NOTICE the phrase Trump used after he asked for a favor -— “our country has been through a lot and Ukraine knows a lot about it.”
How can one conclude that his motive was to gain a PERSONAL advantage over his opponent when he was talking about the Independent Council’s Russia Investigation ( i.e., our country has been through a lot )?
It is clear that Trump wants to get to the bottom of the source of this deceitful hoax of an investigation.
So, to say that his motive was for Ukraine to help him in his re-election bid CANNOT BE CONCLUDED from the transcript.
Agreed.
I hope the Rs running against those in districts Trump won ask why they didn’t SPEAK OUT against the nonsense the whole time.
Even if they vote against, they let the whole charade go forward without making a peep.
Hmm...so did most Rs.
It better be Jim Jordan this time, NOT McCarthy.
If FR ever has an official Concern Troll party, I hope you are elected speaker.
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