Posted on 08/06/2019 8:56:30 AM PDT by Kaslin
Earlier today, President Trump -- with Vice President Pence by his side -- addressed the nation from the White House. Americans are still reeling from a bloody and horrible weekend, during which two young white males perpetrated appallingly lethal mass shootings on consecutive days. A white supremacist and anti-immigrant fanatic murdered 20 (update: now 21) people at a Walmart in Texas on Saturday, then a disturbed self-identified leftist killed nine on a busy city street in Ohio. The president forcefully denounced the "barbaric" violence, calling for unity and healing, and urging elected officials to take bipartisan action to help curb such spasms of mass violence. In case you missed his remarks, here they are in their entirety:
The president was right to describe this phenomenon as "domestic terrorism," pledging to deploy "any and all assistance required" from the federal government to aid the communities torn apart by this bloodshed. He also promised resources to "disrupt hate crimes and domestic terrorism," specifically mentioning monitoring internet forums in which extremists are radicalized and bred. The task, in which he enlisted government agencies and social media companies, is to "detect mass shooters before they strike." This is, needless to say, much easier said than done -- and also raises civil liberties questions. Trump also rightly singled out white supremacy and racism in his comments: "In one voice, our nation must condemn racism, bigotry and white supremacy," he said. "These sinister ideologies must be defeated. Hatred has no place in America." National Review's Sunday editorial -- entitled 'Crush This Evil' -- is profound:
The killer was the second gunman to cite Christchurch as an inspiration in the last six months. The perpetrator of the massacre at California’s Poway Synagogue — also a devotee of 8chan — made exactly the same claim in April. In the Internet era, malevolence tends to echo...If, as they should, the various providers that make websites such as 8chan possible decide that they no longer wish to do so, that is their prerogative. If, as they should, Americans take it upon themselves to spot the early warning signs of radicalization and do whatever they are able to discourage it, that is their prerogative. Here, as elsewhere, the best prophylactic against mass killings is individual intervention and social responsibility... Now, as ever, evil is evil and murder is murder, and we gain nothing by refusing to call them by their names.
President Trump also embraced a proposal known as "red flag laws," which we've discussed in the past. Firearm-related mental health restraining orders, with expedited due process provisions, seem like a good idea. Here's how writer David French, a conservative constitutional attorney, described them last year:
It’s called a gun-violence restraining order, or GVRO. While there are various versions of these laws working their way through the states (California passed a GVRO statute in 2014, and it went into effect in 2016), broadly speaking they permit a spouse, parent, sibling, or person living with a troubled individual to petition a court for an order enabling law enforcement to temporarily take that individual’s guns right away...The concept of the GVRO is simple, not substantially different from the restraining orders that are common in family law, and far easier to explain to the public than our nation’s mental-health adjudications. Moreover, the requirement that the order come from people close to the respondent and that they come forward with real evidence (e.g. sworn statements, screenshots of social-media posts, copies of journal entries) minimizes the chance of bad-faith claims.
Trump specifically endorsed "extreme risk protection orders" with "rapid due process," then pivoted to calling for aggressive and expedited application of the death penalty for mass shooters. There are no easy ways to circumvent due process on this front, but I suspect that a fair number of death penalty opponents -- who, like me, oppose the practice due to concerns over wrongful convictions -- are open to pursuing this form of justice against hateful bigots who commit acts of terrorism, with their culpability not remotely in doubt. On the subject of gun regulations and restrictions, the president did not propose any new action, but smartly highlighted two steps already taken during his term in office; Trump signed a Fix-NICS provision into law last March, strengthening background checks, and took executive action barring 'bump stocks,' which were used to horrifying effect by the Las Vegas shooter. While progress may be limited and frustrating to many, the notion that "nothing" ever gets done isn't accurate.
The president's one false note, in my view, was echoing other officials in scapegoating video games. The evidence of linkage between violent games and violent actions is very weak to non-existent. In his speech, Trump signaled an openness to any ideas that "will actually work." This isn't one of them. Far more useful, I think, would be a collective agreement among media outlets (the government should not be involved) to severely limit mentions of mass shooters' names, and to largely suppress images of their faces.
Citation, please.
Can anyone name a white supremacist with a substantial following... Say 100k followers? Can anyone name a white counterpart to Al Sharpton? The Dems are trying to smear Trump with the help of the media but they look bat guano crazy and hysterical slinging stuff at him that applies better to the great “divider-in-chief” Barrack Obama than to Donald Trump.
Or the daily 25 people killed by illegal aliens.
In case anyone was confused, this IS the first hill to die on.
Did you read anything I said or did you just continue espousing your pre ordained talking points?
The nation would have been better served if he denounced our domestic enemies; not one of the enemies weapons.
So....last election I was a deploreable, this cycle I’m a White supremist?
“In case anyone was confused, this IS the first hill to die on.”
That guy in Maryland already did.
I read it. I agree with what you said after the part I quoted. However, my point was not about how this is being politicized (I think it is, and in the ways you stated, among others).
Your response was to my point, which is that just as we can identify crazy fourth wave feminists, we may be able to do the same with these whacked males. And since the males tend to act out the way a male on the edge will (loner, shooting up a school/mall, etc.) it may behoove us to work toward that solution. And let’s be frank, the things people say in a public forum can be a clue.
Bottom line is that i’m trying to think about this from a “what might actually work” perspective. Calling out the other side regarding their politicization of this is helpful in keeping us from going down the wrong trails, but it doesn’t help us to go down the right trail. I’d like to do more than just expose what they are doing wrong. I’d like to work towards working out what they could do right.
Right. Give shrinks the power to take your guns. Smart move. /s
It’s the shrinks who create these killers in the first place.
How about liberal family members lying to get their conservative relatives disarmed?
A really stupid idea.
Red Flag laws are just ad hoc confiscation. Trump flat out sucks on 2A.
“It’s called a gun-violence restraining order, or GVRO”
Florida sales tax started at 1% in 1949.
The federal income tax was only going to be applied to really rich people.
Government related stuff has a tendency to creep out of control.
It costs about $3,000 simply to buy printed copies of the laws and regulations a Florida building contractor must obey. And probably not one living person has ever read all of them.
GVROs will creep out of control too, unless strong restraints are put in place initially.
A GVRO bill must, at the least:
1. limit the annual issue count to a small percentage (say .001%) of a state’s residents as of the last completed federal census,
2. limit the total in effect count to a small percentage (say .005%) of a state’s residents as of the last completed federal census,
3. provide for at least full retail market price compensation, based on sound professional appraisals for seized weapons, plus the applicable sales tax percentage, to the gun owner, not subject to taxation or other taking,
4. provide up to $50,000 for appropriate attorney and psychiatric fees upon the request of an impacted gun owner, indigent or not, to ensure due process,
5. provide for mandatory individual appeal rights, including judge-attended hearings for psychiatric testimony, all the way to the federal appellate court level, for all impacted gun owners habitually employed,
6. require any judge signing a taking/continuing ban order to take a $20/$10 weekly pay cut, not to be publicly or privately compensated, for one year/as long as the continuing ban order remains in effect, to ensure careful consideration of each case,
7. require an initial deprivation payment of $1,000 to the gun owner, not subject to taxation or other taking,
8. require continuing deprivation payment of twice the federal minimum hourly wage amount [.i.e.~$14.50] per week to the gun owner, not subject to taxation or other taking, until possession and possession rights are fully restored, and
9. provide lifetime low/no cost anger management & other mental health care cost coverage, including appropriate socially beneficial psychotropic drug prescriptions, to the gun owner.
The leftists know human psychology, and so do I.
I believe these safeguards will ensure that true expert advice must be sought out by the government and that there is and will be a really substantial cost to the government with every gun rights deprivation.
men in that mindset are physically dangerous and go the “loner” route.
Sounds like you are claiming that everybody on 8chan is physically dangerous.
I think what is going on is 8chan is competing with corporate media, so they get smeared. Also, they allow anonymous users. Can't have that, too hard to dox users.
they permit a spouse, parent, sibling, or person living with a troubled individual to petition a court for an order enabling law enforcement to temporarily take that individual’s guns right away...who decides who is a troubled individual? The Star Chamber? All a spouse, parent, sibling or person has to do is make up a story about you and it’s...Open up, Police. And you don’t even know about it.
The concept of the GVRO is simple, not substantially different from the restraining orders that are common in family law .... it is substantially different in that, when someone petitions for a Restraining Order, which is a court order given in a CIVIL court proceeding, the accused is subpoenaed and has the opportunity to defend themselves. If someone asks the court for an Temporary Protection Order - Order of Protection - or whatever each state calls them, it is given in a CRIMINAL court and the individual that receives the order is in the courtroom at the time the order is given and is fully informed of ALL the limits contained therein. And any violation of said order will result in an Aggravated Stalking charge(or whatever the state calls it) which will result in the automatic forfeiture of bond and detention until trial, in most cases.
Either instance, the individual that is “accused” of something has the opportunity to defend, offer an explanation, or challenge the “facts” that have been presented to the court from the other person. Ergo, they are afforded DUE PROCESS. Some pesky thing, somewhere in the US Constitution or something like that.
I wasn’t talking about 8chan. I was talking about men who are the male equivalent of fourth wave feminists. The feminists are misandrists, but the way women act out is they whine and scream and throw plates. And they tend to do it in a group. Men in the same state go loner and tend to do physical harm to others.
These guys can be posting on 8chan, Facebook or anywhere else. I don’t really care about 8chan.
“white supremacist”
Almost every person uttering “white supremacist” is eagerly awaiting the numerical and electoral supremacy of “people of color” in the USA.
“Trump is yet again playing 4D chess with leftists”
The kind of game the Democrats always seem to win.
Reread your post #7.
And these 8chan guys are the male equivalent.
What you typed was an incorrect generalization.
If there is a red flag law, I’ll feel all but obligated to report every left winger I have ever had the displeasure of interacting with. They are all, without exception, in red flag territory, even their upper crust set.
It seems to be the sensible thing for every conservative to do.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.