Boeing's 737 Max Software Outsourced to $9-an-Hour Engineers [Bloomberg Link Only]

Bloomberg [Link in Body] ^ | Juen 28, 2019 | Peter Robison

[C19fan]

Bloomberg Link

[I want the USA back]

All the ceo’s think about is the cost of software development. They are too stupid to think about the quality of the software.

Almost anyone can write a program that works right when all the inputs are correct and there are no unforeseen problems. It takes a smart programmer to foresee possible problems and assure that the program doesn’t do stupid things when problems arise.

The program should not screw up, even if the humans around it do. That being said, the program will do exactly what the instructions tell it to do, right or wrong.

[poconopundit]

The whole premise of this Bloomberg critique is all wrong, IMHO.

I'm an industry analyst who looks at the telecom software business, so I follow a couple companies in India and many companies who have a software development shop in India or other "developing" countries.  Some perspective:

• If you use the CIA's measure of per capita GDP, you find America is at $59,500 a year versus India's $7,200 a year.  That means the value of a $9/hour wage in India equates (roughly) to $74 an hour - not bad!

• The level of engineering training in India is very high.  There are 10,000 engineering institutes in the country overall.  The CEO of Microsoft is a product of India's high caliber education program.

• Large U.S. corporations (banks, telecoms, tech companies) have major offices in India doing software development.  A company like Verizon or IBM might have 50% or more of its total lines of code written in developing countries.

• In aerospace, there are mission-critical systems needed to fly the planes and guard the safety of passengers, as well as non-mission critical systems.  Certain subsystems like manufacturing the seats and entertainment electronics are outsourced to contractors around the world.  So Boeing as the systems integrator maintains control over the entire airplane's systems -- and many subsystems do not require the highest level of aerospace/safety-affecting software expertise.

• The high safety/mission critical core systems and their design require the utmost engineering expertise, but other areas such as user-interfaces and reporting require patient, but more routine development work.  So developers are assigned work accordingly.  In any case, the whole system is tested rigorously as a whole, no matter what the origin of the individual software modules.

I'd be interested to hear from software developers and engineers who can discuss how a systems integrator like Boeing manages the total software effort.

[Rebelbase]

AirBus is rejoicing.

[impactplayer]

Example #2 - the space shuttle. The engineer who designed the seal said “Don’t fly,” but he was overridden by his MBA boss.

[Sirius Lee]

you have to have some that can write it and then spend the resources to test it extensively with what, if then scenarios.

Correct. QA is an art form in itself. Anybody can follow a script, but it takes someone with experience and imagination to come up with all those scenarios and script them into a rigorous battery of testing.

[redshawk]

Actually a case could be made that any job done wrong has the potential of causing great harm, either physically or financially. This harm could be directly or indirectly.

---

Yep. However, obviously some job carry more responsibility. Usually those jobs have multiple checks and rechecks by many different people.

[cymbeline]

“Also, I am still not aware of any “close calls” in North America, Europe, or wealthy Asian countries that were caused by the “defective” software.”

Good point. My opinion is that the crashes were the result of bad piloting.

[Fresh Wind]

The problem is, to get it done correctly, you have to have some that can write it and then spend the resources to test it extensively with what, if then scenarios.

The cost testing can easily exceed the cost of coding.

[Fresh Wind]

“cost of testing”

[moovova]

Hah. The code-writers are getting paid less than the baggage handlers loading the Max.

[Zathras]

Most high tech companies have done this and gotten similar quality results.
Intel once paid a group 100M for setting up a coding group to write software for the new Itanium processor.

The India engineers used the money as a slush fund to setup a H1b operation in Sacramento.
Intel never publicly admitted it but it happened around 2000-2004

[ealgeone]

I’m seeing the same thing at my office. Things that used to get fixed in weeks now take many, many months...and even then they’re not right.

[ealgeone]

Accountants should never be put in charge of any company that is not an accounting firm.

You don't realize just how accurate you are with this statement.

[Ezekiel]

“”” All design functions were compartmentalized so you did not have a global sense of how the device was suppose to work, just your portion. “””

Funny that you used the word “global”.

There’s a major disconnect between various departments and entities. I cuss out china products all the time, especially tools. It’s so damn obvious that whoever designs some tools has never held a tool in their life but hey, it looks cool hanging on the shelf in it’s blister pack.

Automobiles too. Whoever designs them has probably never so much as changed a tire. Ford Triton V8 has the 8 individual coils .... jammed underneath the fuel rails.

Good ole Henry Ford was the inventor of breaking things down into smaller, simpler tasks which was good for speed but companies these days have taken things too far and they have no appreciation of the different aptitudes needed for different tasks.

Thanks for the excellent comments.

Proverbs 29

18. Where there is no vision, the people cast off restraint; but he who keeps the Torah is happy:

Also translated as

18 Where there is no vision, the people perish: but he that keepeth the law, happy is he.

This stuff is literal (e.g. planes crashing).

good: reliable, functional, safe, productive
bad (evil): unreliable, dysfunctional, dangerous, unproductive

To keep the Law: to always be "globally" observant and therefore directed by the big picture of how everything is supposed to work.

Not complicated. It pretty much boils down to "don't cut corners." The poor and the stranger need to be able to glean something.

There's a message about "bean counters" in all this. Whenever I hear about the government or some big corporation (a distinction without a difference) doing anything in order to "save money", it's a tip-off that trouble is afoot, promoting itself as a better way. I'm on to that scam.

[FreedomNotSafety]

There was no flaw in the code. The code executed the control logic that Boeing designed. Those planes did not crash because of defective code.

[Bitman]

I'd be interested to hear from software developers and engineers who can discuss how a systems integrator like Boeing manages the total software effort.

Throughout my career it seems they tried to use the Big Bang theory if integration. Build all the pieces,then throw them together and hope that somehow it will magically work as desired. Not as designed, but as desired.

[Spruce]

I can’t speak to the overall management or integration. But I have worked with many software engineers from India.
They are polite, kind, follow directions, and are very smart. I have never, personally, had a bad interaction with any developer from India.
If I had a critique it would be that generally they will write code using a lot of copy+paste.
It’s fine working with them, you just need a strong lead developer at the tiller

[MichaelCorleone]

Unbelievable!

What did they do with the Trump tax cuts?

Clear case of ‘love of money is the root of all evil’, as the Good Book says.

If BA wasn’t a major defense supplier, and a card-carrying member of the MIC, they would be gone by now for sure.

[Vinnie]

There was no flaw in the code. The code executed the control logic that Boeing designed. Those planes did not crash because of defective code.

Apparently the question,'But what if...' wasn't asked.

Seems to me there could be a master override switch that bypasses the MCAS control but leave the servo motors online.
That way the pilots could fly the plane using the electro-servos.
The manual trim wheel is too difficult to use easily or quickly. And what of all the other control surfaces?

[Ikeon]

Three mile island was a mishap where the control room operator(s) It was someones bright idea to turn off the safety systems essential core pressurizing systems, the final root cause was determined to be water in the instrument air lines leading to a leak from the reactor cooling system when a reactor cooling system let down valve stuck open. poor maintenance. poor oversite, no one could put 2+2 together that water in the air system would do anything more than just gum up the air lines. Hey man water in the instrumwnt air from the compressor? job security for the I& C and maint shops..