This is from 2016 before the referendum.
Posted on 06/19/2019 7:57:08 AM PDT by Hostage
Correct. Britain must dump NI and Scotland
The UK does cate. The entire theme of Brexit was “take control of our borders” and the UK has only two land borders with eu countries, in Ireland and in Gibraltar
Switzerland and Norway are not part of the EU but they
1. Free flow of goods and services
2. Freedom for eu citizens to live and work in Switzerland
3. Pay into the eu budget
4. Follow all eu regulations
There is also a marked contrast between how the EU listens and cares about the concerns of its smaller member (Republic of Ireland) and the negotiations have pivoted around what the republic wants
Versus
How Westminster has run rough shod over the opinions of the Northern Irish and Scottish.
The Republic sees more freedom and more control as an independent country in the EU than the captive nations in the English union face.
The republic has more autonomy in the eu than northern Ireland has in the UK
That’s exactly what leave doesn’t want. They want control of their borders.
Also a flood of eu goods and people into the uk is not what they want either.
Leave wanta a wall.
It is very real to the people of northern Ireland who want to trade openly with no border between the Irelands
Let’s take the manufacture of widgets anywhere. The manufacturer nerds to follow iso standards in any case.
The hard Brexit movement won 37% of the vote in the EU elections versus the 41% of cancel Brexit.
Doesn’t look like it is growing
Scotland argues that the terms of the 2014 Scottish referendum were violated aw one of the points was that by NOT voting for independence the Scots would remain im the EU. Since 62% of Scotland voted to stay in the EU I see a shoo in for independence
Ireland is a free country. It’s leader has a vote on decisions made and most critical votes need to be unanimous among the 28 members
The complication is that 'the border' includes two elements: a customs border for goods and a 'people border'. All EU states are in a customs union, so there are no customs checks between EU countries. But absence of a 'people border'(ie Schengen) is optional. If the UK leaves the EU there's no necessary obstacle to keeping the 'people border' open. But there would have to be new arrangements about customs. Customs were not specifically addressed in the GFA. Both states, as EU members, were already in a customs union, so it was unnecessary.
The EU's solution to this is to institute a customs border in the Irish sea (ie between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK). But the DUP in the North won't accept this, since it compromises the integrity of the UK. And since the DUP vote keeps the minority Conservative government in the UK in power, it effectively has a veto.
This is from 2016 before the referendum.
Unfortunately for those who want to keep the U in UK, a substantial number of even British Conservatives, something like 1 in 3, think Scotland leaving the Union is no concern.
Scotland is a lost cause for the Tories. Time for them to reduce the uk yo the united kingdom of England and Wales
I agree, as an external observer, but this has deep impact, not least of which is its emotional impact, especially in Northern Ireland. If Scotland goes, which looks likely, the Unionists in Northern Ireland will be in a precarious position, it seems to me. The native Irish Catholic population there is set to outnumber the Protestant (and usually Unionist) population soon and the Irish Republic, for a while now, across the now almost imperceptible border, has been granting citizenship to those in the North who applied for it.
Northern Ireland, like Scotland, voted to remain in the EU, though I have not seen the vote broken down by the two Northern Irish populations. The Protestant population is mostly descended from those Cromwell brought over from Scotland to replace the native Irish, several hundred years ago. Scotland’s independence, I think, will lead to those Unionists in Northern Ireland being isolated, hopefully not in a way that leads to their doing irrational things.
The odds against Scottish independence are still pretty long. The SNP faces a mountain even to get a second referendum approved by the Scottish Parliament. Its ratings have plummeted since its high point in 2015, after many failures in devolved areas such as education since it took over Holyrood as a majority government rather than being bound in a coalition. It’s likely to lose seats at the next election and either be forced back into coalition or lose power altogether: and all the other Holyrood parties are Unionist. Polling doesn’t yet show a big Brexit-induced swing to pro-independence
Which is not to say that this might not change pretty rapidly if and when Brexit actually happens.
Thanks for the clarification. The EU proposal is preposterous since that shipping lane is internal to the UK.
The two alternatives for the EU are to institute customs at the RoI border, on RoI territory, or between RoI and the rest of Europe.
How does the RoI feel about this? Is the EU going to do anything to stop the UK from leaving and putting this issue in the EU’s lap?
Thanks for the clarification. The EU proposal is preposterous since that shipping lane is internal to the UK.
The two alternatives for the EU are to institute customs at the RoI border, on RoI territory, or between RoI and the rest of Europe.
How does the RoI feel about this? Is the EU going to do anything to stop the UK from leaving and putting this issue in the EU’s lap?
That proposal is from Ireland. The EU proposal is the Irish proposal.
Ireland wants no customs corder between itself and the other 26 countries.
It also wants the UK to abide by the Good Friday agreement and have no customs between the republic and northern Ireland.
Remember that the EU position was and is shaped by Irelands concerns and driven by Ireland.
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