Posted on 06/01/2019 1:57:41 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum
Donald John TrumpOcasio-Cortez returns to bartending in support of tipped workers: 'Still got it!' Trade wars have cost stock market trillion: Deutsche Bank analysis Dollar stores warn they will have to raise prices over tariffs MORE has said that if the House were to impeach him despite his not having committed “high crimes and misdemeanors,” he might seek review of such an unconstitutional action in the Supreme Court. On April 24, he tweeted that if “the partisan Dems ever tried to Impeach, I would first head to the U.S. Supreme Court. Not only are there no 'High Crimes and Misdemeanors,' there are no Crimes by me at all.”
Yesterday, when asked by a reporter if he thinks Congress will impeach him, the president responded, “I don’t see how. They can because they’re possibly allowed, although I can’t imagine the courts allowing it.”
Commentators have accused Trump of not understanding the way impeachment works and have stated quite categorically that the courts have no constitutional role to play in what is solely a congressional and political process. Time magazine declared in a headline “That’s Not How It Works,” and Vox called the president’s argument “profoundly confused.”
Scholars also echoed the derision. The influential legal blog Lawfare wrote confidently that “The Supreme Court Has No Role in Impeachment,” and my friend and colleague Larry Tribe, an eminent constitutional law scholar, called Trump’s argument simply “idiocy,” explaining that “the court is very good at slapping down attempts to drag things out by bringing it into a...”
(Excerpt) Read more at thehill.com ...
He is no longer in office, so from what would be removing him?
If you look at what misdemeanor meant at the time, it meant behaving in ways that demean the office, such as dressing inappropriately or public drunkeness, and that could include petty crimes but not just that; high crimes would be the corrupt abuse of office.
If elected, Hillary could have been impeached and convicted for selling of farts, cabbages, and urine. This lack of concern for personal hygiene demeans the office. Bill should have been impeached and removed from office for his disgraceful behavior with Monica Lewinsky.
Also, Dershowitz seems to respect and understand the Constitution. I give him credit for not waffling on that now when other libs are, even though by defending the Constitution he defends Hillary’s nemesis.
The SCOTUS has NO authority regarding impeachment. Congress is the ultimate branch of government. However a revolution by marxists in congress is bound to cause... problems.
I doubt that.
> I guess he could do that but I doubt the SC would take up the case. If they do impeach Trump there is nothing Trump can do to stop it or overturn it. <
I agree with you. Impeachment is essentially a political process. No one gets fined or put in prison. And the Founders gave that impeachment power solely to Congress. Any Supreme Court interference would be a gross violation of the separation of powers.
By the way, the Founders saw a “high crime” as being misbehavior by a high public official. Benjamin Franklin once remarked that being obnoxious could be considered to be a “high crime.”
Good research of original understanding, critical to accurate constitutional interpretation and application.
Good stuff.
Would that we had more faithful to the Constitution as written and originally understood and intended.
According to whom? You? You're not the definer of valid federal action. The Constitution is and the Constitution gives Congress the power to legislate and impeach, but not "ultimate" power.
The Constitution is the Supreme law of the land and each Branch must honor and "preserve, protect, and defend" the Constitution as written and originally understood and intended. SCOTUS has a legitimate place in that role.
Isn’t “Impeachment “ set forth in the law?
Doesn’t the Supreme Court rule if actions and interpretations are according to the law?
Impeachment Law and Legal Definition. ...
It is the constitutional process, not the conviction or removal from office, whereby the House of Representatives may “impeach” (accuse of misconduct) high officers of the federal government for trial in the Senate.
HERE IS AN EXCELLENT FINDLAW ARTICLE ON THIS TOPIC.
Article I § 2 of the United States Constitution gives the House of Representatives the sole power to impeach (make formal charges against) and Article I § 3 gives the Senate the sole power to try impeachments. Article II § 4 of the Constitution provides as follows:
“The President, Vice President and all civil officers of the United States, shall be removed from office on impeachment for, and conviction of, treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.”
Thus, the operative legal standard to apply to an impeachment of a sitting President is “treason, bribery, or other high crimes and misdemeanors.” There is substantial difference of opinion over the interpretation of these words.
There are essentially four schools of thought concerning the meaning of these words, although there are innumerable subsets within those four categories.
Congressional Interpretation
The first general school of thought is that the standard enunciated by the Constitution is subject entirely to whatever interpretation Congress collectively wishes to make:
“What, then, is an impeachable offense? The only honest answer is that an impeachable offense is whatever a majority of the House of Representatives considers it to be at a given moment in history; conviction results from whatever offense or offenses two-thirds of the other body considers to be sufficiently serious to require removal of the accused from office...” Congressman Gerald Ford, 116 Cong. Rec. H.3113-3114 (April 15, 1970).
This view has been rejected by most legal scholars because it would have the effect of having the President serve at the pleasure of Congress. However there are some, particularly in Congress, who hold this opinion.
An Indictable Crime
The second view is that the Constitutional standard makes it necessary for a President to have committed an indictable crime in order to be subject to impeachment and removal from office. This view was adopted by many Republicans during the impeachment investigation of President Richard M. Nixon. The proponents of this view point to the tone of the language of Article II § 4 itself, which seems to be speaking in criminal law terms.
There are other places in the Constitution which seem to support this interpretation, as well. For example, Article III § 2 (3) provides that “the trial of all crimes, except in cases of impeachment, shall be by jury.” Clearly the implication of this sentence from the Constitution is that impeachment is being treated as a criminal offense, ergo, impeachment requires a criminal offense to have been committed.
Article II § 2 (1) authorizes the President to grant pardons “for offenses against the United States, except in cases of impeachment.” This sentence implies that the Framers must have thought impeachment, and the acts which would support impeachment, to be criminal in nature.
In the past, England had used impeachment of the King’s ministers as a means of controlling policy (Parliament could not get rid of the King, but could get rid of his ministers who carried out acts Parliament believed to be against the best interest of the country). However, in English impeachments, once convicted that person was not only removed from office but was also punished (usually by execution).
Misdemeanor
The third approach is that an indictable crime is not required to impeach and remove a President. The proponents of this view focus on the word “misdemeanor” which did not have a specific criminal connotation to it at the time the Constitution was ratified. This interpretation is somewhat belied by details of the debate the Framers had in arriving at the specific language to be used for the impeachment standard.
Initially the standard was to be “malpractice or neglect of duty.” This was removed and replaced with “treason, bribery, or corruption.” The word “corruption” was then eliminated. On the floor during debate the suggestion was made to add the term “maladministration.” This was rejected as being too vague and the phrase “high crimes and misdemeanors” was adopted in its place. There are many legal scholars who believe this lesser standard is the correct one, however.
Relating to the President’s Official Duties
The fourth view is that an indictable crime is not required, but that the impeachable act or acts done by the President must in some way relate to his official duties. The bad act may or may not be a crime but it would be more serious than simply “maladministration.” This view is buttressed in part by an analysis of the entire phrase “high crimes or misdemeanors” which seems to be a term of art speaking to a political connection for the bad act or acts. In order to impeach it would not be necessary for the act to be a crime, but not all crimes would be impeachable offenses.
Some hold the opinion that Congress could pass laws by declaring what constitutes “high crimes and misdemeanors” which would, in effect, be a list of impeachable offenses. That has never happened. (Query: If Congress passed such a code of impeachable offenses, could that be applied retroactively, much as a definition, to a sitting President? Would such an application be viewed as an ex post facto law? Also, would such a statue be an attempt to amend the Constitution, without following the amendment procedure?)
How Congress Sets the Rules for Impeachment
Both the U.S. House of Representatives and the U.S. Senate have the right to make their own rules governing their procedure, and to change those rules. Under current rules, the actual impeachment inquiry begins in the Judiciary Committee of the House of Representatives. That Committee holds hearings, takes evidence, and hears testimony of witnesses concerning matters relevant to the inquiry. Typically, as occurred in the case of President Nixon, there will also be a Minority Counsel who serves the interest of the party not controlling Congress.
Witnesses are interrogated by the Committee Counsel, the Minority Counsel, and each of the members of the House Judiciary Committee. The Committee formulates Articles of Impeachment which could contain multiple counts. The Committee votes on the Articles of Impeachment and the results of the vote are reported to the House as a whole. The matter is then referred to the whole House which debates the matter and votes on the Articles of Impeachment, which may or may not be changed. If the Articles of Impeachment are approved, the matter is sent to the Senate for trial.
Impeachment Trials
The trial in the Senate is handled by “Managers” from the House of Representatives, with the assistance of attorneys employed for the prosecution of the impeachment case. The Senate sits as a jury. (In the past the Senate has heard judicial impeachments by appointing a subcommittee especially for that purpose, which then reports its findings to the Senate as a whole.) The Senate would then debate the matter, and vote, each individual Senator voting whether to convict the President and remove him from office, or against conviction. If more than two-thirds of the Senators present vote to convict, the President would be removed from office. Thus a Senator who abstained from voting but was present would in effect be voting against conviction. (Article I § 3).
If the President is convicted by a vote of the Senate, and removed from office, yet another grave constitutional crisis is then presented. Does the President have a right of appeal, and if so, to whom? Article I § 3 of the Constitution states:
“The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments...”
For many years, the conventional view was that the forgoing section of the Constitution meant that the Senate was the final arbiter when it came to impeachments (at least as to Federal Judges) and that what constituted an impeachable offense would be unreviewable. See Ritter v. U.S., 84 Ct. Cl. 293 (1936) cert denied 300 U.S. 668 (1937).
However, if there is an impeachment standard (and there can be no doubt that there is as the Constitution specifically establishes one — “treason, bribery or other high crimes and misdemeanors”), then it is only logical that it is possible for that standard not to be correctly followed. If such is the case, who is responsible for saying that the standard was not correctly followed? There can only be one answer — the courts. As there has never been a successful impeachment and removal of a sitting President, there is no authority “on all fours” for the proposition either way. However, there is authority which would shed some light on this complicated question.
The Role of the U.S. Supreme Court
The Supreme Court of the United States has decided that it should not review judicial impeachments, using the “political question” doctrine to sidestep the issue. Walter Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. 224 (1993). In the Walter Nixon case, Judge Nixon attacked the rule of the Senate allowing a subcommittee to hear evidence, rather than the Senate as a whole, in his judicial impeachment. The opinion of the Supreme Court declined to review Judge Nixon’s case, and in dicta is not binding on future Courts.
Even though the Court was unanimous in concluding not to review Judge Nixon’s removal from office, there were multiple concurring opinions. The concurring opinion of Justice White indicates an unwillingness, on his part at least, to conclude in advance that a Presidential impeachment would be unreviewable. See Walter Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. at 244. As stated by Justice White at footnote 3, page 247 of the Walter Nixon case:
“Finally, as applied to the special case of the President, the majority’s argument merely points out that, were the Senate to convict the President without any kind of trial, a Constitutional crisis might well result. It hardly follows that the Court ought to refrain from upholding the Constitution in all impeachment cases. Nor does it follow that, in cases of Presidential impeachment, the Justices ought to abandon their constitutional responsibilities because the Senate has precipitated a crisis.”
This view is echoed by Justice Souter in his concurring opinion in the same case:
“If the Senate were to act in a manner seriously threatening the integrity of its results...judicial interference might well be appropriate.” Walter Nixon v. United States, 506 U.S. at 253.
This article was written by Ronald Arthur Lowry.
Can you imagine if the Dhimmicraps impeach President Trump for nothing, then the Supreme Court slaps them down? How does THAT play?
Warning Dershowitz is in all probability going to be the lawyer representing hillery in any trial that happens over corruption. if you listen to all his arguments that he has been giving you will find that they contain an argument to be used in defense of hillery if she ever goes to trial. his only reason for saying the house cant indict and the senate cant impeach with out Supream court approval is to try and
appear to be non partisan in his views. If trump ever was impeached he would not let out a peep in defense. My opinion is that in reality Dershowitz would love To see Trump impeached and this is all a pre hillery trial game.
Judgment in Cases of impeachment shall not extend further than to removal from Office, and disqualification to hold and enjoy any Office of honor, Trust or Profit under the United StatesU.S. Const., Art. I, Sec 3, Cl. 7.
That is correct. However,
the Party convicted shall nevertheless be liable and subject to Indictment, Trial, Judgment and Punishment, according to Law.Id.
It is conceivable he could be constitutionally subpoenaed and tried and convicted for his crimes in office.
If lower district courts can tell the president what to do, then certainly the USSC can tell congress what to do.
“The SCOTUS has NO authority regarding impeachment.”
Actually, they do. The Chief Justice is the presiding judge in the Senate trial.
Read the constitution.
It does carry with it a certain stigma. Donald Trump, impeached President would be in history books forever.
“Misdemeanors” is pretty wide open Not sure where Clinton’s dalliances fall in. It may be that the Constitution is fairly loose about the required reasons for impeachment.
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Clinton committed perjury.
'peach fohty foar then.
Do ya think Maxine and Elijah Cummings will be all in for that one? Maybe not.
They can’t do Diddley. It would be up to the Justice Dept to make that call.
Ok. Look for Justice in the Justice Dept.
P.S. At his best few could match Bo Diddley anyway. I consider him one of the pioneers of overloaded small amp feedback sounds---brand new idea in his day.
That’s right. It’s up to Congress to determine if the so-called offenses rise to the level of impeachment. Unfortunately our incompetent Congress is full of a mix of radical and impotent people.
They will impeach Trump. It’s a matter of timing. They are manufacturing the evidence and making up their storyline.
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