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To: Mr Rogers; DiogenesLamp; OIFVeteran; Bubba Ho-Tep; southernsunshine
In the month he was President prior to the SOUTH opening fire on Ft Sumter, Lincoln was just beginning to learn how to be President. He had opposing counsel on all sides offering a multitude of solutions. At no time COULD he KNOW how the South would react, and he often guessed wrong. Ships went where he didn’t want, or didn’t sail at all, or sailed to the wrong place. Orders went astray, or were badly worded, and that was only on HIS side! He heard every possible variation on how the South would react.

Lincoln knew what he wanted to do. I am reminded of an old post by southernsunshine that was on a thread that was later deleted because of a flame war (otherwise I would provide a link to her post). southernsunshine had found a letter from Carl Schurz to Lincoln dated April 5, 1861, that said the following [here is an excerpt from her October 18, 2011 post]:

4/5/1861 Carl Schurz to Lincoln (bold mine [ i.e., hers]):

Some time ago you told me, that you did not want to call an extra-session of Congress for fear of reopening the compromise-agitation. You were undoubtedly right then. But any vigorous act on the part of your Administration, any display of power and courage will remove that danger. If you first reinforce the forts and then call Congress together, the enthusiasm of the masses will be so great and overwhelming, that Congress will be obliged to give you any legislation you may ask for. You will be master of the situation, and supported by the confidence of the people, the government will be stronger than it ever was before.”

Here is a link to the letter in the Library of Congress: Schurz letter to Lincoln, 4/5/1861

So, according to the letter, Lincoln had earlier told Schurz he didn't want compromise. To compromise with the South and let them successfully secede would have meant that a large loss or tariff revenue to the North. As Lincoln said to the group from Baltimore that urged Lincoln to seek peace after the attack on Fort Sumter, "And what is to become of the revenue? I shall have no government -- no resources."

The potential loss of revenue is why he provoked war with the South. As he basically said to the South in his first inaugural speech, you can keep your slaves, but we want and will collect the tariff revenue on your imports.

That was a pretty clear indications of Lincoln's priorities.

I am also reminded of what Lincoln's two secretaries, Nicolay and Hay, said about Lincoln and Fort Sumter:

President Lincoln in deciding the Sumter question had adopted a simple but effective policy. To use his own words, he determined to "send bread to Anderson"; if the rebels fired on that, they would not be able to convince the world that he had begun the civil war.

There is one major flaw with that argument. Some of us know that the Mayor or Governor (don't remember which) back in January 1861 offered to provide Anderson with food for his troops at Fort Sumter. Anderson refused the offer, preferring instead to buy food in Charleston. The Confederates let Anderson do that until April 7. They had learned that Lincoln was sending his up-until-then secret expedition to Charleston to resupply or reinforce Fort Sumter by force if necessary.

Some "bread to the starving garrison" that was.

766 posted on 05/11/2019 7:58:15 PM PDT by rustbucket
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To: rustbucket

“Some of us know that the Mayor or Governor (don’t remember which) back in January 1861 offered to provide Anderson with food for his troops at Fort Sumter. Anderson refused the offer, preferring instead to buy food in Charleston. The Confederates let Anderson do that until April 7....Some “bread to the starving garrison” that was.” - rustbucket

Really? So - according to you - Ft Sumter didn’t need supplies? Pity Fort Sumter didn’t bother to inform Washington, which sent two expeditions to deliver supplies!

“Anderson’s move to Fort Sumter had its drawbacks for the Union garrison. In the hasty evacuation of Fort Moultrie, most of Anderson’s supplies had to be left behind. The withdrawal forced Anderson, as he later wrote to Washington, “to sacrifice the greater part of my stores as it is now too late to attempt their removal.” The stage was set for a confrontation at Fort Sumter that no one wanted.

The Union soldiers were well-protected in the fort, but they could only hold out as long as their supplies lasted. “We have one [month’s] supply of hospital stores and about four months’ supply of provisions for my command,” Anderson reported to Washington about the situation at Fort Sumter. If Anderson and his men were to hold the fort for long against the Southerners, they would soon have to receive supplies and reinforcements...

...In February, U.S. Navy Captain James Ward proposed a plan for several light-draft steamers loaded with men and provisions to run past the Confederate guns and land at Fort Sumter. It was a daring plan that called for Ward and his men to abandon their steamers and join Anderson’s beleaguered garrison inside Fort Sumter. He proposed to employ four or more small steamers belonging to the U.S. Coastal Survey to make the landing.

Many officials in Washington felt that Ward’s plan had every prospect of success. Nonetheless, outgoing President James Buchanan, fearing the operation might provoke a Confederate attack upon Fort Sumter, refused to authorize the plan...

...On March 19, 1861, Fox was dispatched to Charleston to visit Fort Sumter. “Our Uncle Abe Lincoln has taken a high esteem for me,” Fox wrote to his wife, “and wishes me to take dispatches to Major Anderson at Fort Sumter with regard to its final evacuation and to obtain a clear statement of his condition which his letters, probably guarded, do not fully exhibit.”

The trip gave Fox the opportunity to observe firsthand the situation at Fort Sumter. Upon his return to Washington, he finally won over those who were skeptical of his plan. With the help of Commodore Silas H. Stringham, the Navy Department’s detailing officer, Fox finally convinced Lincoln of the rescue plan’s viability.”

https://www.historynet.com/mission-to-relieve-fort-sumter-september-97-americas-civil-war-feature.htm

“When he delivered his inaugural address, the new President assumed that there was time for southern pro-union sentiment, which he greatly overestimated, to reassert itself, making a peaceful resolution to the crisis possible. The next morning, however, he received a letter from Robert Anderson informing him that Fort Sumter’s supplies would be exhausted in four to six weeks [mid-April at the latest] and that it would take a 20,000-man force to reinforce the fort.”

http://www.digitalhistory.uh.edu/disp_textbook.cfm?smtID=2&psid=3059

“In the early hours of April 12, approximately nine hours after the Confederates had first asked Anderson to evacuate Fort Sumter, the envoys were again rowed out to the garrison. They made an offer: if Anderson would state when he and his men intended to quit the fort, the Confederates would hold their fire. Anderson called a council of his officers: How long could they hold out? Five days at most, he was told, which meant three days with virtually no food.”

https://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/fort-sumter-the-civil-war-begins-1018791/

Pity even the officers of Fort Sumter didn’t know they had been supplied with food bought in Charleston all along! Pity NO ONE knew the fort had ample food! Pity the commander of the fort LIED to Lincoln, isn’t it.... < / sarcasm >


767 posted on 05/11/2019 9:45:15 PM PDT by Mr Rogers (Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools)
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To: rustbucket; Mr Rogers
rustbucket: "I am also reminded of what Lincoln's two secretaries, Nicolay and Hay, said about Lincoln and Fort Sumter: I don't think this quote is entirely wrong.
It's likely exactly what Lincoln was thinking -- he had no choice about resupplying Fort Sumter and if Davis used that as his excuse to start war, then so be it.
Better that Davis should start Civil War.

But that's a far cry from DiogenesLamp's lies saying Lincoln sent a "war fleet" with orders to "attack Confederates" in Charleston.
In fact, Lincoln's orders were effectively, "no first use of force" and his "war fleet" was intended to stay well outside the harbor while small boats sent in supplies under cover of darkness and/or fog.

777 posted on 05/12/2019 12:41:51 PM PDT by BroJoeK ((a little historical perspective...))
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To: rustbucket
Thanks. Good information.

Lincoln started the war for power and money. The reason they cannot see it is because they do not wish to see it.

789 posted on 05/12/2019 3:27:35 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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