Found: A Ship Once Described By Herodotus

Atas Obscura ^ | 19mar19 | by Jonathan Carey

[BenLurkin]

bttt

[null and void]

It's only described as being seen on the the Nile.

Compare to the river-worthy ships the Kublai Khan attempted to use to invade Japan in the 13^th century...

[Openurmind]

The acacia is a short tree so usable length is not much. I think Asia has much taller trees with longer usable length. Just guessing but I think the Asian ships were built from much longer planks making them much stronger and more seaworthy?

[Skooz]

bfl

[null and void]

They weren't sea worthy, as they were shallow river ships, they lacked keels. BOTH attempted at invasion in 1274 and 1281 failed miserably due to the divine (Kami) wind (Kaze). Both fleets were destroyed in transit by severe weather.

What I find interesting is how they could keep such short planks together. 2 cubits would only be between 3-4 feet.

Herodotus describes them as being put together like bricks, the illustration shows the butted together like pavers.

He also says the acacia has a sap that is like gum, in my little pea brain I imagine the keel as being more akin to a modern glulam beam.

[Openurmind]

“Herodotus describes them as being put together like bricks, the illustration shows the butted together like pavers.”

I could see this, and they were put together with tenon joints. But I keep thinking it would have the overall linear strength of a jigsaw puzzle.

The description mentions that the heavy keel planks were joined flat and horizontal rather than vertical. I could see it being a lot stronger length wise if perhaps the planks were laminated vertical.

[Sacajaweau]

Very interesting...thanks

[clyde260]

A stuffing box is used to keep a majority of water coming through where the shaft enters the vessel below the water line. To your point they would still need a type of caulking between all the seams.

[SunkenCiv]

Thanks AndyJackson!

[SunkenCiv]

I started this one in 2015, not sure I'd managed to finish posting the whole thing. Since I got around to finishing "Huckleberry Finn" the other night (after a three or four year hiatus), who knows? I may finish it soon. :^)

• Herodotus -- Historia, "The Histories"
• herodotus keyword

[SunkenCiv]

Cambyses’ lost army is what I really want to see found, there’s an inexplicable resistance among the Egyptological bureaucracy:

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/cambyses/index

[SunkenCiv]

The vessels used in Egypt for the transport of merchandise are made of the Acantha (Thorn), a tree which in its growth is very like the Cyrenaic lotus, and from which there exudes a gum. They cut a quantity of planks about two cubits in length from this tree, and then proceed to their ship-building, arranging the planks like bricks, and attaching them by ties to a number of long stakes or poles till the hull is complete, when they lay the cross-planks on the top from side to side. They give the boats no ribs, but caulk the seams with papyrus on the inside. Each has a single rudder, which is driven straight through the keel. The mast is a piece of acantha-wood, and the sails are made of papyrus. These boats cannot make way against the current unless there is a brisk breeze; they are, therefore, towed up-stream from the shore: down-stream they are managed as follows. There is a raft belonging to each, made of the wood of the tamarisk, fastened together with a wattling of reeds; and also a stone bored through the middle about two talents in weight. The raft is fastened to the vessel by a rope, and allowed to float down the stream in front, while the stone is attached by another rope astern. The result is that the raft, hurried forward by the current, goes rapidly down the river, and drags the "baris" (for so they call this sort of boat) after it; while the stone, which is pulled along in the wake of the vessel, and lies deep in the water, keeps the boat straight. There are a vast number of these vessels in Egypt, and some of them are of many thousand talents' burthen.

-Herodotus, "Historia", BOOK II 'Euterpe'

[P.O.E.]

Thanks for the book tip. Just ordered one from Amazon.

[Starboard]

A stuffing box is used to keep a majority of water coming through where the shaft enters the vessel below the water line. To your point they would still need a type of caulking between all the seams.

---

Stuffing boxes are not only used for sealing the shaft; they are also used for rudder posts, some of which may be above the waterline. One of the things I was curious about was how they sealed the rudder which, even though it is above the waterline in the depiction, underway that can change with the load of the vessel and waves, especially in high following seas. The general point being that any through hull shaft/post needs to be sealed in some way.

BTW have you ever changed shaft packing while the boat was in the water? I don’t recommend doing this unless you really know what you’re doing. It can lead to some anxious moments. :)

[clyde260]

The reason I said that is because it is my understanding that the standard packing used in the typical stuffing box needs the water it keeps out to keep itself lubricated and swollen. I’ve seen old dried out packing, it’s usually in pieces.

I guess what you are describing above the water line uses another type of packing? and it’s called a stuffing box? Who knew ;) I’m too literal, ugh.

And no, I have never had the pleasure of attempting that chore in the water. I race OPB’s (Other Peoples Boats)

[Starboard]

The packing is usually a woven cord like material that is infused with a wax like lubricant. It can be used for shafts or rudder posts.

You are correct that it swells as it gets wet, which helps to further seal the shaft. That is the old stuff; there are newer types of packing that are dripless. Or, you can replace the packing gland altogether with a dripless shaft seal.

If it sounds like I spent too much time in the bilge adjusting packing you’re right. :) Boats are an expensive hobby so it pays to do as much of your maintenance as you can.