Posted on 10/24/2018 7:27:26 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
Khashoggi’s murder is only a symptom of a much bigger problem. The biggest mistake the Trump administration made in the Jamal Khashoggi case occurred while Khashoggi was still alive: letting Saudi Arabia’s crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, think he could get away with something so heinous — and so heinously stupid.
But the bell was rung, as it were, and there is no way to unring it.
The Saudis surely made everything worse by lying about it. But the aftermath is such a complicated mess because it illuminates decisions made long before Prince Mohammed’s goons brought a bone saw to Istanbul.
It’s a bit analogous to the assassination of Archduke Franz Ferdinand, heir to the throne of the Austro-Hungarian Empire. That murder sparked World War I, yet the war was about far more than the murder of a single official.
Look at the situation from the Saudi perspective. The U.S. has turned a blind eye to far larger horrors, including the Saudi-led war in Yemen. Prince Mohammed’s forces reportedly target civilian centers and tolerate rape, torture, and the conscription of children. The Iranian side is just as guilty.
Saudi Arabia also executes about 150 people a year, mostly by beheading and occasionally by stoning. In recent years, several women were executed for practicing “witchcraft” or “sorcery.” Yet the U.S. doesn’t say boo about that.
Instead, the Saudis have gotten two mutually reinforcing messages from the White House. First, President Trump has repeatedly said that every country has a sovereign right to protect its own distinct culture.
Well, in Saudi Arabia’s distinct culture, rulers can do whatever they can get away with, particularly with regard to their own citizens. From Prince Mohammed’s perspective, Khashoggi — a longtime supporter of the Muslim Brotherhood and an operator in the Saudi court — was an obstacle to reform and a tool of his enemies. That he had a U.S. tourist visa and a column in the Washington Post didn’t change that. It made him a greater threat.
The second message is that Saudi Arabia is our ally. This isn’t new, but the Trump administration has taken it to new, personalized extremes. So long as Saudi Arabia helps contain Iran, softens on Israel, and keeps the oil flowing out (and the weapons in), they can have a free hand.
To paraphrase FDR, the man who forged the U.S.-Saudi alliance, the Saudis may be SOBs, but they’re our SOBs.
The Saudis are also getting a third message, one that is coming more from the world of NGOs, op-ed pages, and Wall Street than from the West Wing: Saudi Arabia needs to reform its economy and culture.
Indeed, Prince Mohammed jumped the line of succession to do precisely that. It’s thanks to him that women are finally allowed to drive in the kingdom.
One of the more cynical talking points among those calling for new leadership in Saudi Arabia is the idea that reformers in backward authoritarian nations don’t do terrible things.
The shahs were reformers, supporting Western-style modernization and women’s rights. They were also brutal dictators.
Mikhail Gorbachev was a reformer. But I would be stunned if he’d never had anyone murdered. Regimes founded on mistaken principles have few nice options when seeking to reform.
The point isn’t that the ends justify the means, but that when dealing with murderous regimes, the choice is often between the more tolerable of murderers.
Some of the most outraged American voices in the Khashoggi affair had no problem working with Iran’s brutal regime. The Obama echo chamber made realist arguments about the nature of reform under the mullahs, but these same people are now morally aghast at our realpolitik with the House of Saud.
The Turks are even worse. Along with Iran, Turkey is competing with Saudi Arabia for regional dominance, and Khashoggi’s death is merely a propaganda tool for them. The Turks are brilliantly feeding evidence in dribs and drabs to an indignant Western press.
I get the indignation, but has no one followed the mass arrests and periodic assassinations of journalists under President Recep Tayyip Erdogan? Do people really believe the Turkish tyrant and NATO ally — who calls journalists the “gardeners of terrorism” — is sincerely offended? Should we call for Erdogan to step down? Why not?
I have no good idea for what we should do next, because the problem isn’t really the killing of Khashoggi. As outrageous as it is, Khashoggi’s murder is a symptom of a far longer series of mistakes.
Jamal Kashoggi wasn’t murdered.
Yo moron choir history lesson time for you
During WW2 we did business with a mass murdering thug Stalin to keep a worse mass murdering thug Hitler, from taking over the world.
We do business with bad people all over the world to keep worse people in check
Grow up finally! These histrionics indicate a level of infantile political stupidity that is simply inexcusable is suppose rational adults
Also, THIS hysteric hyperventilating about a total non issue rather then fighting to educate voter right before a critical mid term election about who the Left really is, is another example of why “Conservative inc” has been the inept, incompetent political movement in US History.
What is disgusting is that supposed “conservatives” are racing around the web being the willing propaganda bots of the Iranians and the Russians
Are you really this politically stupid?
What is disgusting is that supposed “conservatives” are racing around the web being the willing propaganda bots of the Iranians and the Russians
They never miss an opportunity to undermine POTUS. 2016 showed they prefer progressive Democrats (Hillary SCOTUS, etc.) to Main Street conservatives. Trump is holding the GOP wing of the uniparty together with baling wire. These arrogant beltway “conservative: elitists have no idea how close they are to burning down the GOP.
RE: Jamal Kashoggi wasn’t murdered.
I’m interested in reading your idea of where he is....
Jonah Goldberg has sand in his vagina again!
RE: Why is the murder of a Muslim Brotherhood enabler/apologist/supporter any kind of “problem” for US?
Should we then say — We don’t care what Saudi Arabia did, relationship with the country continues as if nothing happened.
RE: Jonah Goldberg has sand in his vagina again!
Can you elaborate further as to what part of his column you disagree with?
This drum is about Deep State and Neocons wanting power.
This isn’t really about Saudi. This is about weakening Trump’s foreign policy and him losing in 2020. Guys like Goldberg would much rather have the kenyan 2.0 in the White House than Trump.
The answer is: pull all the Saudi visas except for the ambassador and his staff. Solves two issues with one move.
The dems will say to soft. The Saudis will say too harsh. So Trump can say just right.
This isn’t really about Saudi. This is about weakening Trump’s foreign policy and him losing in 2020. Guys like Goldberg would much rather have the kenyan 2.0 in the White House than Trump.
____________________
You bet this is true. Goldberg is an enemy who masqurades as a “friend”. Not a good man. Steyn was screwed by him.
The Saudis are not financing and supporting terrorist groups killing Americans in Iraq, Syria and Afghanistan
The Saudis are not actively harassing US shipping in the Persian Gulf
The Saudis are not developing nuclear weapon capacity.
Iran is.
So it is past time “Conservative Inc” stop being the mindless propaganda drones of the Iranians and focus on who are the real enemies of the USA.
But as a member of a terrorist organization he was always a legitimate military target. And running around not even wearing a uniform of any sort.
Sorry, I reject the notion that killing military targets is murder, no matter how many idiots (George W. was the first time I can recall an actual sitting American president embrace that nonsense - even Jimmy Carter wouldn't go there before he retired) want to whoop and hollar about it folks who die in war are casualties of war not murder victims.
Kashoggi lost. Happens.
One more associate of Osama Bin Laden takes a permanent dirt nap.
Boo hoo.
I do not care that terrorist supporter Khashoggi was brutally murdered. He got what he deserved.
Trump’s foreign policy and him losing in 2020.
When Trump wins in the biggest landslide in the history of America, will they feel like open season on Conservatives?
Stoopid people, in America behind every blade of grass....
Pinochet saved Chile from Marxism. Sort of messy but it worked.
Murdered?
Closer to sentence carried out, or casualty of war. Or, kind of like how our CIA assets in China were murdered when Killary was SoS.
Well said.
We’re not “politically stupid”. We don’t take well to having our memories revived of whom was responsible for 911. And it wasn’t the Russians, Iranians, or Syrians.
You make some sense. Most of the other defenders of Saudi Arabia don’t. The Saudi prince could do what President Trunp can’t.....fire his Secret Service. It still doesn’t change that Iran, Syria, and Russia are not the bad guys. Or that we’re tied to Turkey by NATO membership. Or that the Saudis have too much control over our politicians, economic well being, and foreign policy.
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