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7 Forces Driving America Toward Civil War
Townhall.com ^ | April 21, 2018 | John Hawkins

Posted on 04/21/2018 5:19:30 AM PDT by Kaslin

I was interviewed by a mainstream media reporter yesterday. I thought he wanted to talk tech issues, but we actually spent almost the entire conversation discussing the feeling that many conservatives have that America has gone off the tracks and is headed toward dissolution or alternately, a civil war one day. Obviously, this would be a terrible thing and ironically, twenty years ago, it would have been laughable. Today, the joke isn’t so funny because we are a deeply unhealthy society with a dysfunctional government and for all our money, success and storied history, we seem to be on an increasingly dangerous trajectory. 

1) A Post-Constitutional Era: Liberals don’t believe in the Constitution. Typically they deny this, but that’s exactly what a “living” Constitution means. You make it up as you go along. The Founders foresaw the instability and danger that would be created by this approach, which is why they wanted us to be a constitutional republic, not a democracy. Unfortunately, America has in many ways already become a post-constitutional democracy and we’re one liberal judge away from abandoning the Constitution altogether. Once we get to that point, America just becomes the representation of that old saying, “Democracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what to have for dinner.” Of course people are not lambs and when large numbers of them believe they aren’t being treated fairly, they do have the option of getting away from the wolves. 

2) Tribalism: The “you only have to listen to people you already agree with” nature of social media has dramatically ramped up the level of tribalism in the United States. The Right has gotten much more tribal since Donald Trump rose to prominence and the Left has taken tribalism into hyper-drive. Increasingly, liberals treat a range of opinion between Elizabeth Warren and Hillary Clinton as legitimate while everyone else is viewed as a white supremacist Nazi primitive that must be driven down into the gutter for society to move forward. This makes any sort of dialogue or cooperation nearly impossible. When every issue is a zero sum war where one tribe must win or lose, a lot of people quite understandably ask, “What do we gain by staying allied to this other tribe?” 

3) Federal Government Too PowerfulFederalism is a safety valve on the American pressure cooker. As long as people in San Francisco can, for the most part, live the way they want to live while the people in rural North Carolina can, for the most part, live the way they want to live, it’s much easier for everyone to get along. When people are unnecessarily forced to live under rules they find abhorrent because the federal government has become an octopus that has inserted its tentacles into every minute crevice of American life, it creates discontent on a wide scale. If most Americans wanted to live like people in San Francisco, they’d live in San Francisco. 

4) Moral Decline: As Samuel Adams once noted, “A general dissolution of principles and manners will more surely overthrow the liberties of America than the whole force of the common enemy. While the people are virtuous they cannot be subdued; but when once they lose their virtue then will be ready to surrender their liberties to the first external or internal invader.”

A large number of Americans HAVE LOST their principles, manners and virtue and it shows through from the sort of politicians they elect, to their rudeness online, to the sort of shallow hedonism and fame whoring they find appealing. Americans are increasingly becoming a soft and decadent people which is problematic because the challenges may change, but we can be certain that Americans will face future challenges every bit as difficult as the ones past generations had to tackle. This is frightening because if you look at the “principles, manners and virtue” of Americans today, they don’t seem capable of dealing with monumental events like the War of 1812, the Civil War, the Depression or World War II. Most people in their twenties probably couldn’t tell you why all those events were such challenges in the first place. When America faces a challenge bigger than we can handle because of ineffective politicians and our “amusing ourselves to death” population, there are no guarantees our republic will survive.  

5) The Debt: America is a freight train heading toward a cliff, but because we’re not moving toward the edge at lightning speed, no one seems all that concerned. However, the fact of the matter is that a reckoning is coming. At some point, probably within the next decade or two, we will face a debt-driven economic collapse; borrowed money will stop flowing into the United States and Medicare/Social Security as we know it will fall apart because we will not have the money to pay it. If and when we get to that point, all bets are off because if regions of the country see an advantage to splitting off from the United States at that point, they will do it. 

6) Lack Of A Shared Culture: There has never been a time when American culture was more fragmented than it is today. By that, I mean that there are legions of people with millions of fans or followers on the Internet that the vast majority of Americans have never heard of in their lives. We don’t have that shared love of anybody or for that matter, anything. Conservatives and liberals disagree on economics (capitalist/socialist), religion (friendly to Christianity/hostile to Christianity), the Constitution (support/believe in a living Constitution i.e. no Constitution), etc., on and on. The average conservative and the average liberal disagree on 95% of the issues and in the few limited cases where they do look at things the same, they won’t support a proposal by the other out of sheer tribalism. Over the long haul, there has be something more to hold a country together than, “We wear Nikes, like pop music and play golf.” 

7) Gun Grabbing:  Liberals have fallen in love with the idea of ignoring the 2nd Amendment and confiscating all firearms. The logistics of doing this in a nation with hundreds of millions of guns (many of which are off the books) when many police departments and tens of millions of Americans would not cooperate is seldom discussed. Another thing that seldom seems brought up is that large numbers of conservatives would see this as a prelude to the government’s use of force against the citizenry. When it is discussed on the Left, there seems to be an assumption that lone resisters might get into firefights with dozens of police or soldiers, as opposed to ganging up with other formerly law-abiding Americans to waylay gun confiscators, politicians and anti-gun activists at THEIR HOMES in guerrilla actions that would be silently applauded and supported by hundreds of millions of Americans concerned about their freedom. Confiscating guns is a dangerous and stupid idea that could in and of itself end our republic if a serious attempt were ever made to implement it. 



TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
KEYWORDS: 2ndamendment; america; banglist; civilwar2; culturewar; cwii; cwiiping; elizabethwarren; fauxahontas; incometaxes; massachusetts; mediawingofthednc; nra; partisanmediashills; presstitutes; secession; secondamendment; slingingbull; smearmachine; taxcutsandjobsact; taxreform; tcja
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To: pepsionice

Nothing will be restorative without abolishing ALL the buraus and departments and agencies and all their works Also have to restrict Federal land ownership to DC, and millitary bases should be on leases, perpetual leases, but leases nevertheless.


21 posted on 04/21/2018 6:04:39 AM PDT by arthurus (!)
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To: Kaslin

Some of these could be avoided by slow changes (frog in boiling pot), and accepting tyranny over generations.

But this starts one thinking about the potential tipping point events that would prompt future massive crippling riots, or even secessions:
1) a Liberal Supreme Court decision by a new 5th lib judge
2) the loss of federal retirement benefits due to debt
3) large-scale federal gun confiscations
4) states or counties “opting out” of the debt and the whole federal scheme
5) confiscation of 401k’s
6) a president’s impeachment over a non-impeachable offense...


22 posted on 04/21/2018 6:08:46 AM PDT by ReaganGeneration2
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To: Eaker; Jack Black; archy; DuncanWaring; Travis McGee; Absolutely Nobama; afnamvet; AK2KX; ...

About the CWII Ping List

The CWII Ping List is short for Civil War II. It is NOT a list of people advocating another Civil War in America. It is a list of people who are interested in the parallels between the Civil War (or War Between the States, if you prefer) and our current situation, or more generally are noting the references to a 'coming Civil War' that are made in the press.

Of course sometimes this is merely a figure of speech, such as "The Tea Parties are fighting a civil war for the heart of the GOP". This would not merit a CWII ping.

On the other hand someone saying something like "The events in California are reminiscent of what happened in Yugoslavia in the period proceeding the Civil War" would merit a ping.

FR rules do not permit advocating for the overthrow of the Republic, and I am not aware of anyone doing so on the list. Still many do see that as the political climate worsens we may be heading in a direction that makes such a conflict all but inevitable, particularly if other avenues for resolving our differences are taken away. Such as widespread vote fraud by leftists making elections meaningless, or a small cadre of judges over-ruling all attempts to end destructive policies over the clear will of the people.

The correct keyword tag for the Civil War II ping list is "CWII". Please Freep Mail me to get on the list

23 posted on 04/21/2018 6:12:08 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Kaslin
"At some point, probably within the next decade or two, we will face a debt-driven economic collapse"

I think the debt-driven economic collapse is a lot closer than the next decade or two. Maybe the next year or two.
24 posted on 04/21/2018 6:12:47 AM PDT by Xenodamus (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. -TJ)
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To: ClearCase_guy
"Personally, I think the country is about to turn a corner and head to a much brighter future."

Optimism... I envy you...

I remember the collage kids of the 60's.. That's the liberalism that is fueling all the problems in our nation today.... Today's collage kids are even worse then THAT..!!

In my opinion, the future of our nation looks very poor indeed...

25 posted on 04/21/2018 6:15:05 AM PDT by unread (Joe McCarthy was right.......)
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To: Kaslin

When it (gun confiscation) is discussed on the Left, there seems to be an assumption that lone resisters might get into firefights with dozens of police or soldiers, as opposed to ganging up with other formerly law-abiding Americans to waylay gun confiscators, politicians and anti-gun activists at THEIR HOMES in guerrilla actions that would be silently applauded and supported by hundreds of millions of Americans concerned about their freedom.


In the ministry of dumb question, ask people, what do you think will happen if the liberals win on gun confiscation?


26 posted on 04/21/2018 6:16:34 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: Kaslin
The saddest truest thing I have read on FR in a long while. And while many here will look through the lens of their own beliefs I like to point out the sad truth that is is VERY true of all sides: A large number of Americans HAVE LOST their principles, manners and virtue Look no farther than recent post here on FR on the death of Barbara Bush, on Most threads the MODS where deleting post (srubbing filth) before the tenth post and that didn't stop it from continuing though. Mrs Bush was the most un-offenseful of people who carry her duties as First Lady, wife, mother and grandmother with style and class and certainly didn't deserve such hateful speech. You can't lower yourself down the the level of the leftest and not come away with at least some damage to your soul. “Beware that, when fighting monsters, you yourself do not become a monster... for when you gaze long into the abyss. The abyss gazes also into you.” ― Friedrich Nietzsche
27 posted on 04/21/2018 6:17:16 AM PDT by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: DuncanWaring
You'll need it.


28 posted on 04/21/2018 6:17:33 AM PDT by Travis McGee (EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: DoodleBob

The average conservative and the average liberal disagree on 95% of the issues and in the few limited cases where they do look at things the same, they won’t support a proposal by the other out of sheer tribalism.


Your comments on the author may be true, but many here on FR thought the same about Trump winning. In your reference to the above article, can’t say I disagree with the statement.


29 posted on 04/21/2018 6:21:48 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: eccentric; Brilliant

“The problem is that the other side doesn’t want that.”

NEITHER side wants that. There are far too many political ticks on both sides of the aisle. They’re attached to the body, fat with our nation’s blood...and none want to give that up.

And, we keep electing these parasites.


30 posted on 04/21/2018 6:25:23 AM PDT by moovova
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To: Kaslin
Consider if the Democrats do not decisively take Congress in the 2018 elections and run some lunatic like Bernie Sanders or Elizabeth Warren for President and Trump is re-elected in 2020. The years of Muellers’s witch hunt have turned up nothing substantial and Trump is neither impeached nor forced to resign. People and even liberals will have long grown tired of Hillary’s ranting about how she was somehow cheated out of the election.

What then for the liberals? Aside from attempting a putsch or Bolshevik style overthrow of an elected government what do they do? My guess is more tribalism, more rankings on CNN and the liberal media until they become irrelevant to the majority of the American people. Watch California as a barometer... the decades of liberal lunacy have reached a tipping point and the state either collapses into a bankrupt third world society or the decent people living there say enough and throw the bums out. I think the latter. Large parts of California are rebelling against the sanctuary policy and are close to even breaking up the state. Liberalism in America may well have reached its zenith and will only decline.

31 posted on 04/21/2018 6:26:03 AM PDT by The Great RJ ("Socialists are happy until they run out of other people's money." Margaret Thatcher)
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To: Kaslin

To all, Read the article slowly and let your lips move.

It is a very good analysis of the current situation. No solutions are offered. We most likely will have to go through the tough times.

“A house divided cannot stand.............it will be all one or all the other.”


32 posted on 04/21/2018 6:30:02 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Thinking Caps are no longer being issued but there must be a warehouse full of them somewhere.)
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To: Popman

It would have to be a constitutional amendment. But that’s not going to happen until the government implodes so there is no one who has a vested interest in opposing it.


33 posted on 04/21/2018 6:32:02 AM PDT by Brilliant
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To: Kaslin

Moral Decline:

This can be broken out into specific behaviors..

1. Decline of the family unit. Meals in front of TV set. Minimal family communication due to cell and other distractions.

2. Decrease in the value of life. Both pre-birth and lack of care for our elderly.

3. Individual greed.

4. Decline in church worship, being replaced by government worship.

5. Increase in sexual perversion and it’s acceptance in mainstream.

6. Increase in victimhood.

7. Decrease in individual motivation and reliance on the government.

8. Nanny state regulations imposed rather than freedom of choice.

9. Increased reliance on drugs to mask wounds to the soul rather than addressing issues to resolution.

10. Lack of belief in God leaves no Hope when entering mid-life crisis and difficulties are encountered in life.

11. Decrease in the value of community.


34 posted on 04/21/2018 6:39:59 AM PDT by tired&retired (Blessings)
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To: usconservative

“Personally, I think the country is about to turn a corner and head to a much brighter future.”

I guess you are looking for a “dead cat bounce!”

I’m in agreement in the long term, but the short term ahead is quite a bumpy road.


35 posted on 04/21/2018 6:41:32 AM PDT by tired&retired (Blessings)
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To: central_va
What's happening now is that the left wants to change the USA into a socialist/quasi communist country without a bloody revolution. They think they can cheat, lie, steal, finesse and slough their way to political victory without out violence. We are not sheep. IT AIN'T GOING TO HAPPEN THAT WAY!

Bad news for you....it's happening right now.

1913 17th Amendment ratified

1933 FDR elected who implements the New Deal...massive expansion of Federal Government

1934 National Firearms Act

1935 - Social Security (OASDI) made law

1938 Federal Firearms Act

1939 US v Miller

1964 LBJ and Great Society

1968 Gun Control Act

1986 Firearm Owners Protection Act

1993 Brand Handgun Violence Prevention Act

1994 Assault Weapons Ban

2010 Obamacare (Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act)

36 posted on 04/21/2018 6:42:52 AM PDT by ealgeone
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To: Kaslin

Bookmark


37 posted on 04/21/2018 6:44:09 AM PDT by DarthVader ("The biggest misconception on Free Republic is that the Deep State is invulnerable")
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To: Travis McGee

Or the grandkids will need it.

Do you remember the short story of the grandkid that was given the cache? It should be reposted.


38 posted on 04/21/2018 6:47:20 AM PDT by CodeToad (The Democrats haven't been this pissed off since the Republicans took their slaves away.)
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To: central_va

“Not really, but you are right -partially. In areas like the mid west and most of the south there will be almost zero sectarian violence. The “normals” will rule via state houses and suppress the tiny crazies who will emigrate anyway.”

The south is more divided than it appears. There is a large African American population allied with the progressives of the urban northeast and urban leftist west coast. In addition the white professionals in the large cities (Atlanta, Charlotte, Raleigh, Richmond, Austin, Houston, northern Virginia) are allied with the progressives of the northeast. These progressives, allied with the African American community have already turned Virginia into a red state and are in the process of turning North Carolina and Florida. The urban minorities are well armed and many are organized in gangs. If there is sectarian violence in the future it will intense in the south.


39 posted on 04/21/2018 6:47:34 AM PDT by Soul of the South (The past is gone and cannot be changed. Tomorrow can be a better day if we work on it.)
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To: Kaslin
Living in the state of Oregon is not politically fun. But living in a county with a constitutional Sheriff makes it much more tolerable. Oregon is putting a measure on the ballot to ban all large capacity magazines, and any gun that takes them. OUr Sheriff has informed the Oregon legislature just like he informed Obama and Biden in 2013, in a letter.

"It is my position as Sheriff of Douglas County, Oregon, that I will refuse to participate in nor tolerate enforcement actions against citizens that are deemed unconstitutional." He went on, "The United States Supreme Court rules that when a Sheriff chooses to enforce an unconstitutional directive he is violating his Constitutional Oath, I will NOT violate my Constitutional oath."

40 posted on 04/21/2018 6:50:55 AM PDT by thirst4truth (America, What difference does it make?)
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