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Thiss is all over face book, Freeper comments please.
ZuckerSmucks FB ^ | 10-5-17 | Lloyd Acree

Posted on 10/05/2017 12:25:22 PM PDT by Bob Celeste

from the facebook page of Lloyd Acree.......Take it from 8 years' professional Marine Corps machine gunnery and marksmanship expertise:

Having trained to pro military "expert"-grade skill sets on rifle marksmanship and multiple machine guns in the Marine Corps infantry, I quickly started noticing a fowl odor in the news narrative on this Vegas massacre. The following are the weapons I am tired of shooting copious rounds through on both known and unknown distance ranges, running, hiking and training with, disassembling and reassembling, etc. Notice they all shoot automatic or can if switched over. - M249 Squad Automatic Weapon (full automatic) - M4/M16 (3-round auto) - M240G/B (full automatic) - IAR M27 (full automatic, top-dollar M16 variant)

I spent 8+ years training and shooting to military specs, not only with these machine guns but also pistols, shotguns and explosive weapons, not counting heavier machine guns and robotic mounting equipment used in private contracting overseas after my military service.

Now the distance shot from the Vegas hotel to the "Village" concert of about 400-500 yards would be too familiar with a single-shot AR15 to any Marine, but that is our **farthest** distance that we qualify with in the Marine Corps (people look like tiny letter i's in the distance at this point). We never shoot full automatic at this range unless we are using an imprecise burst to keep the enemy pinned, and that is only if your weapon is heavily secured to mitigate all the recoil. You just can't expect many kills at 500 yards even with a properly sighted slow fire rifle. But I will get back to this.

Now as a former point man, machine gunner, team leader, and assistant patrol leader, my ability to plan and implement these weapons is comparable with what we saw occur there in Las Vegas. Notice I did not say that the shooting was better than my abilities, but neither am I saying I could do a lot better - what I have observed as video/audio evidence is simply run-of-the-mill shooting. For Marines in the infantry, that is, IF they have professionally adjusted optics sighted to their preferred distance for engagement AND high quality vise-like stabilization. I knew something wasn't right when I kept hearing survivors say that their friends had received multiple bullets to the same body part. For example, one guy said his friend took three bullets to the chest--all while he was standing next to his friend! This means the man was shot three times all at once in the same burst, OR he was shot near-simultaneously by multiple shooters (that tends to happen if you are in the open wearing a red shirt or stand out for some similar reason). Then, another witness said he saw a man with four bullets in his head. I doubt it was actually four but obviously there were multiple holes there. These shot groupings at that distance from the hotel, considering this is a real-life killing, are already professional rate even with just a semi-automatic. But this is also full auto?

You might have already guessed, yes I knew right away the shooter was using a tripod or similar gear to stabilize the gun(s). But that alone is not enough to achieve both the high rate of fire and precision accuracy that occurred in Vegas. Only a precision-sighted rifle with a quality optic can drill those kinds of groupings at such a distance, but there's more--the longevity and redundancy of machine gun fire. This accuracy was no trick of a semi-auto trigger, as using a bump stock requires extra manipulation of the foregrip to slap the trigger against the finger (which would entail pulling against the tripod instead of leaning into it), instead of squeezing it smoothly as should be done for precise shot groups. In any case there was no accuracy to be had here in conventional light-weight full automatic gunfire, no matter how good the scope was, because a light-weight rifle such as the AR15 will rock and "climb" in direct proportion to the recoil of the rounds being fired. In other words, you can't stabilize your shots if your weapon isn't heavy, or at least locked down to something heavy, and if he was using a bump stock then we have to rule out that necessary stability.

Further, this man in his mid-60s who has sat for years in the seat of an accountant's desk, supposedly carried all these long-barreled weapons, ammo, and gear through the hotel by himself? He always kept his guns hidden from room service and his hefty logistics never tipped off the security guards?

This would all just be a conspiracy theory except that we also have footage proving that it was indeed multiple shooters from different locations around the building (see link below).

Who would conspire to sell this false story and cover up the real shooters?

We know that the leftist institutions, mainstream media (operation mockingbird), and the military industrial Congressional complex, funded and manipulated by deep state non-elected officials with immense power (aka "the swamp"), are all in cahoots to paint Donald Trump in a bad light no matter what happens. We know they want him impeached for the desperate, unsubstantiated accusation that he used Russian support to be elected (yet the Saudis are hand-in-glove with these accusers just as they funded our DNC candidates' campaigns). Do you really think that they would be so far from slaughtering a hundred country music fans if it meant they regained the helm of the entire US government? And now you see they are ramping up their push to take away America's guns. Why? Once we are under the boot, no one can stop a kangaroo court of corrupt officials from indicting Trump on baseless lies. At that point, there will be no bill of rights left, either. As if we still even have one after all the damage inflicted by the far-reaching patriot act.

These conspirators know they have to use a dramatic shooting like this one if they are to gain further ground: the public must receive a traumatic sensory immersion that scars our memory and thus eclipses the factual myriad stories we have of mom-and-pop locals stopping crime with their concealed carry pistols or home owners' shotguns. Law-abiding gun owners across the nation save lives in vastly variegated situations which is easy to read about if you simply keep in the know, but if you are informed only by the opinionated Hollywood celebs then, by all means, "big brother" is the only one who should have all the firepower. Because, you know, absolute power tends to soothe the bureaucratic soul into absolute moderation, or something like that.

This is not a legality problem: it's mass hysteria deliberately triggered by national terrorism to achieve population controls. This is precisely the definition of terrorism: to achieve political agendas by the use of violence and the fear of it! The bravest thing we can do is assert our rights and our human dignity, keep our minds sharp, and maintain our weapons to always war against true fascism--the very darkness this country was founded to fight.

Fear-driven abandonment is not the answer, just as big brother is never your friend.

- Lloyd Acree


TOPICS: Crime/Corruption; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: acp; ahjeez; badfoil; banglist; fakenews; getagrip; giveitarest; lasvegas; nevada
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To: Bob Celeste

Hitchen’s law: ‘That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence.’
Where’s the weenie, Joker, for this “fowl smell”?


61 posted on 10/05/2017 1:27:23 PM PDT by tumblindice (America's founding fathers: all armed conservatives)
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To: Bob Celeste
Further, this man in his mid-60s who has sat for years in the seat of an accountant's desk, supposedly carried all these long-barreled weapons, ammo, and gear through the hotel by himself?

This was not a stupid guy. I would bet he had a super IQ and thought this all out. People are acting like what he did was impossible.

First, he must have checked the place out. He had several days to do the load in of equipment. All he had to do was check in and have maybe one or two bags. Nothing suspicious. Then later, maybe when a lot of people are checking in or out, he slowly brings everything up one or two at a time.

Or get one of those big garment carts and take up several things in suit cases or athletic duffel bags. Long objects are just stood up in a reinforced garment bag.

In case they have very aggressive bellboys, most places have several doors on the sides and back for people parking in the back. Often, you can come in without even passing the desk. Walk it up one floor and then hop the elevator.

Hotel people generally aren't looking at what you bring in after you check in.

A high school kid could figure this out.

How do it know all of this? Experience. Nothing illegal.

62 posted on 10/05/2017 1:27:46 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Kill: NFL, NBA, BLM, CAIR, Hollywood, Antifa, SPLC, CNN, ESPN, NPR, TWITTER, FACEBOOK)
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To: WeWaWes
"The guy has 20,000 targets and 72 minutes." The density of the crowd he was firing into explains the number of casualties, you're right about that. Look back to at least WWI to find anything even vaguely similar to the use of an MG against a massed target or maybe aircraft firing into groups of troops on the ground. In both cases, WWI and aircraft targeting, there are numerous times when a large number of people are killed with MG rounds very quickly.

As for the 72 minutes, the firing from the hotel stopped after about ten minutes or a bit more, probably when the shooter saw security exit the elevator on that floor. The shooter fired through the door and hit one of the two security guards at twelve minutes. As far as I've found anywhere, the burst just before the guards arrived is the last firing from the room on the 32nd floor. Are there sounds of gunfire from any other location past the twelve minute mark (or even ten minute mark)?

You're really looking at how many hits, lethal or not, there were in that ten minutes, not the full 72 minutes between the first shots and SWAT entering the room. Looking at only that ten minutes makes highly improbable that there was only a single shooter, at least with what we know of the weapons he used so far. Something belt fed and cranked up to 800 rpm or better with extra barrels available is a different story.

I do believe he had help and it's entirely possible there were one or more other shooters, maybe timing their fire to coincide with shooter within the hotel firing based on watching the video police know he was streaming to someone, somewhere. So far, though, no ballistics have been released and there haven't been any spent cases found anywhere around the scene that I've heard of.

I agree with the article point about multiple gunshot wounds on the same individual at the range from which the shooter fired. I don't see how that could happen with the shooter in the hotel on full auto which means if people were hit with multiple rounds, especially from the same weapon, then there would have to have been other shooters.

In fact, Hillary may have planted both her feet firmly in her mouth by coming out against silencers right away when there's, as of now, no proof they were used. Maybe those other shooters were a lot closer and some of them used silencers, something someone familiar with a plan for such a mass shooting would know before they knew whether any suggested use of silencers was mentioned by the police or witnesses.

JMHo, ramblings, and so on.

63 posted on 10/05/2017 1:28:27 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory !!)
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To: caligatrux

If they falsely named an accomplice, they’ll be out of business.

Security camera like would have to be cut. Not buying the jamming either.


64 posted on 10/05/2017 1:33:26 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: Right Wing Assault
This was not a stupid guy. I would bet he had a super IQ and thought this all out. People are acting like what he did was impossible.

This is where the Phoenix sheriff who is making these public statements comes across as less than impressive.

1. I don't think the guy needed a super IQ to plan or execute any of this.

2. I sure don't think he did something all that difficult at all. Once you make up your mind that you're going to kill a lot of people at one time and you're willing to die in the process, the planning isn't all that hard.

3. If the report I read yesterday is true and Paddock actually intended to escape, then you can knock about 50 IQ points off your "super IQ" assessment of him because he sure didn't plan or execute that part very well at all. In fact, that comes across as someone who is either not very bright or is completely delusional.

65 posted on 10/05/2017 1:35:13 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("Tell them to stand!" -- President Trump, 9/23/2017)
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To: Bob Celeste

Because shooting into a crowd of 20,000 people requires mad sniper skills.


66 posted on 10/05/2017 1:36:44 PM PDT by DiogenesLamp ("of parents owing allegiance to no other sovereignty.")
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To: WeWaWes
The guy has 20,000 targets and 72 minutes. Shocked he didn’t kill more. This was like shooting fish in a barrel so I don’t buy this story.

The guy has 20,000 targets and 10 minutes. After the security guard and cops showed up at his door, he stopped shooting outward. At that point, he shot through his door, wounding the guard, then (reportedly, and I believe it) shot himself. After about the 10 minute mark, he no longer shot outside. In rough numbers, that means he hit 50 people per minute (almost one per second) during the 10 minutes he was shooting and killed one in ten of those he hit. Some of his shots (about 100 in one minute) were directed at a fuel tank, not even at people, so this seems plausible. The hit rate and the survival rate sound about right to me, given the availability of medical treatment.

67 posted on 10/05/2017 1:41:08 PM PDT by Pollster1 ("Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed")
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To: AndyTheBear
Moreover his contention that a non-military person would lack the logistical skill to smuggle that much equipment in is just stupid.

Exactly. Anyone who has cleaned an AR-15 has separated the upper and lower (less than a one-minute job with essentially no tools needed). Those two parts fit in most suitcases. Smuggling a suitcase into a hotel room does not require a James Bond, not even a Jason Bourne. Smuggling a couple dozen suitcases in over a span of several days is just as easy.

68 posted on 10/05/2017 1:44:46 PM PDT by Pollster1 ("Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed")
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To: Rashputin
I knew something wasn't right when I kept hearing survivors say that their friends had received multiple bullets to the same body part. For example, one guy said his friend took three bullets to the chest--all while he was standing next to his friend! This means the man was shot three times all at once in the same burst, OR he was shot near-simultaneously by multiple shooters (that tends to happen if you are in the open wearing a red shirt or stand out for some similar reason). Then, another witness said he saw a man with four bullets in his head. I doubt it was actually four but obviously there were multiple holes there. These shot groupings at that distance from the hotel, considering this is a real-life killing, are already professional rate even with just a semi-automatic. But this is also full auto?

The first point here about survivors claiming their friends had multiple wounds to the same body part is based on anecdotal information, and the author hasn't even considered the possibility that they are wrong. There's also the possibility that you had ricochets and fragmentation of rounds here as well.

The second point doesn't say anything, and it goes to one of the common errors you see with these analyses -- where it is assumed that multiple bullet strikes happened sequentially in rapid succession. With the rate of fire and duration of fire of this massacre, it's easy to envision a scenario where someone is shot once in place, then struck again multiple times while lying on the ground. This whole scene unfolded over 10+ minutes, not ten seconds.

69 posted on 10/05/2017 1:49:48 PM PDT by Alberta's Child ("Tell them to stand!" -- President Trump, 9/23/2017)
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To: Pollster1

There is no indication that he hit 500 people. There were 500+ people reported as injured, but that includes people who were trampled, fell, etc.


70 posted on 10/05/2017 1:49:57 PM PDT by caligatrux (Rage, rage against the dying of the light.)
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To: Bob Celeste

“we also have footage proving that it was indeed multiple shooters from different locations around the building”
We do? Tell, how many - three, four, five, six or maybe more...?

I call BS.


71 posted on 10/05/2017 1:50:00 PM PDT by Mr Radical (In times of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act)
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To: Alberta's Child
You could be right. But, even smart people can get flustered and make mistakes if they've never been in a high tension physical situation. It's different from being a poker whiz and keeping cool in a chair. Being on psych drugs doesn't help. This could explain your "or is completely delusional." I haven't heard results of any drug tests.

72 posted on 10/05/2017 1:50:15 PM PDT by Right Wing Assault (Kill: NFL, NBA, BLM, CAIR, Hollywood, Antifa, SPLC, CNN, ESPN, NPR, TWITTER, FACEBOOK)
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To: Alberta's Child
3. If the report I read yesterday is true and Paddock actually intended to escape, then you can knock about 50 IQ points off your "super IQ" assessment of him because he sure didn't plan or execute that part very well at all. In fact, that comes across as someone who is either not very bright or is completely delusional.

I think he's a planner but not good in the real world. His people skills were obviously limited. He probably thinks everyone else is stupid compared to him, so the police might not notice the broken windows the bullets were coming out of.

73 posted on 10/05/2017 1:57:15 PM PDT by Pollster1 ("Governments derive their just powers from the consent of the governed")
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To: Bob Celeste

There was 12 minutes of shooting, and then the unarmed security guard tried to get into the room, that is when the shooter shot at the security guard.

And soon there after he shot himself.

It was another hour before the cops showed up to bomb the door. They took their time to be safe because the shooter had stopped shooting.

A lot of confusion on the time line. But the guy could have kept shooting for much longer, but he probably panicked when the security guy arrived.


74 posted on 10/05/2017 1:59:58 PM PDT by skinndogNN
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To: Bob Celeste

Yes. A grown over weight man can get 1,000 lbs of gear to his room easy. They are called bell carts. I have routinely moved lots of heavy stiff into hotels and motels. All you need is cart or dolly.


75 posted on 10/05/2017 2:02:10 PM PDT by justa-hairyape (The user name is sarcastic. Although at times it may not appear that way.)
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To: robroys woman

There are many here that will not actually read the article, then continue to spout what they believe, relieving themselves from critical thinking on many issues.


76 posted on 10/05/2017 2:03:25 PM PDT by foundedonpurpose (Prayers for Gods People! Salvation & Restoration!)
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To: Pollster1; Alberta's Child

Plus, in the immortal words of Mike Tyson’s ghost writer, “everybody has a plan until they get punched in the mouth.”

This guy probably had no real idea how physically demanding this was actually going to be on him. 60+ years old, firing multiple high-powered weapons at a high rate of fire, the room so filled with smoke it set off the fire alarms. He’d have been beaten up all to hell.

And maybe, just maybe, the reality of what he had just done finally hit him. Maybe he realized the atrocity he had just committed and in a moment of impulse, shot himself.

None of that precludes him having planned originally to escape. His suite was literally right next door to the stairwell, he had multiple cameras in the hallway. He had more ammunition and explosives in the car. Maybe he had a plan, but then he just got punched in the mouth.


77 posted on 10/05/2017 2:05:13 PM PDT by caligatrux (Rage, rage against the dying of the light.)
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To: AndyTheBear

I saw some holes in a metal building - iirc there were 3 or 4 tight together - like a few inches and almost touching. That seemed odd to me. I am not familiar with automatic weapons, but I figure even with such a high rate of fire the muzzle moves a bit after each round. Of course it would be even odder if 4 snipers were all shooting at that same indistinct spot on the building!


78 posted on 10/05/2017 2:06:37 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts FDR's New Deal = obama)
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To: Bob Celeste

I like to keep an open mind but I don’t buy this. If there were multiple shooters tasked with creating panic you don’t need to shoot any victim more than once even if you could. The shooter was just raining bullets down from above.


79 posted on 10/05/2017 2:10:06 PM PDT by shoff (Vote Democrat it beats thinking!)
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To: dirtboy

His case is based on the high degree of accuracy displayed at a massive distance. That’s his point. This wasn’t spray and pray.


80 posted on 10/05/2017 2:10:19 PM PDT by RinaseaofDs (Truth, in a time of universal deceit, is courage)
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