Did The Vegas Shooter Use A Fully Automatic Weapon?

hot air ^ | 10-2-17

[doug from upland]

Opinion is divided this morning on Twitter among people who, unlike me, know more than the most basic basics about firearms. It’s not a matter of mere curiosity; as you (should) know, fully automatic weapons have been illegal in the U.S. for decades, which is why even mass shooters hellbent on murder unto death never use them. If Stephen Paddock used a machine gun, how on earth did he get it?

[Manly Warrior]

On an AR15/AR10 with stock trigger, yes grinding down a certain part allows or causes the hammer to follow the bolt carrier group, with firing pin extended as the round is being chambered.

While crude and perhaps effective, one never knows when one of the rounds is going to hang up a bit on the way into the chamber and fire out of battery- ie, with the bolt unlocked. When this occurs, espc in an AR platform, immediate and dynamic release of propellant gases render the weapon useless and often the user injured.

I suppose an idiot hell bent on something would do it though.

[Yaelle]

If you put a little do not disturb sign out, the maid service won’t go in. Easypeasy.

[2001convSVT]

Yes, it did sound like a belt feed weapon, the SAW249 is the most likely weapon used..

[Manly Warrior]

Don’t forget, every bullet has the ability wound more than one, but this is dependent more or less on the size, style and energy of the bullet in the beaten zone.

A hit may penetrate one and strike another, bullets bounding off the pavement fragments/ricochet’s etc do a lot of “wounding” w/o actually hitting a person first.

[jimbug]

Well pardner, you would have lost that bet.

I live in Pa, was a Captain in the U.S. Army Reserve (Infantry),and am an NRA member and a volunteer for the NRA-ILA (that's the Institute for Legislative Action).

I have been around firearms all of my 70 years, and I am what you might call a 'gun nut'.

One of my hobbies is long-range precision shooting, and I have done my share to reduce the groundhog population in this great state.

By the way, Pennsylvania has more armed hunters than many standing armies of most countries.

[Sopater]

Maybe hotel parking lots ought to have some way to test what’s in the vehicles?

Maybe not.

[Rebelbase]

“Maybe hotel parking lots ought to have some way to test what’s in the vehicles?”

Your vehicle checks clean, Sir. Just so you know, there’s $1.35 in change behind the back seat.

[Garvin]

I have fired at 500 Yards (457.2 meters), using 5.56mm (M16A2) slow fire on the range for 21 Years in the Marine Corps. Depending on the wind you can get a very close grouping with iron sights.

[Big Red Badger]

Blah .

Blah..Blah

Blah... Blah....Blah!

Sums it Up ..at This point.

My meds...sorry.

[jonno]

sounds like full-auto to me...
LV:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JpsqirFRdTo

full auto AK:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46iwPQNJOkk

M16:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NM8xvE5B4yk

[Garvin]

https://www.quora.com/What-do-you-have-to-do-to-get-an-Expert-score-in-the-US-Marine-Corps-rifle-and-pistol-qualification-tests-For-rifles-what-are-Tables-1-and-2-How-many-points-are-you-given-for-hits-on-the-different-sections-of-the-targets

[Jamestown1630]

It’s a difficult subject, and I don’t have a good answer.

The day I got married at the courthouse, I had on my key ring a little collapsible pair of scissors that I used on my wildflower collecting excursions. They took my keys away; and the way they examined me and my little gadget, I felt I was viewed as a potentially dangerous criminal.

I understand the ‘domicile’ argument, but a place like Vegas is so high-profile, and we’re living in very dangerous times. Maybe there should be some kind of precautionary system in places like that.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Why do we guess and debate about stuff that will absolutely be known (and in fact is ALREADY absolutely known, just not to us)?

They killed the suspect, in the room where he was shooting. They have EVERY weapon he used, so they know exactly what each one is capable of, or will know when they test them.

But by that time, we’ll have a million google hits about whether one was automatic or not, and it will be impossible to find the actual FACT.

[Bruce Campbells Chin]

The bit I heard didn’t sound like 7.62 to me either. He apparently had a bunch of weapons up there, but I was almost certain one clip I heard was full auto 5.56. First thing that crossed my mind was M249 SAW in terms of a similar rate of fire.

[Steve Van Doorn]

Twitter account Tagalog was doing a sound analyzing the type of weapon it was. There seemed to be focused in on an M60 machine gun.

It would seem twitter took that down... i did a search if it's someplace else no luck.

[MPB]

...He apparently had a bunch of weapons up there, but I was almost certain one clip I heard was full auto 5.56...

I can't listen to any clips right now to know, but is it at all possible the audio includes echos of the rifle reports that make it seem like more are being fired than really are?

Just throwing that out there. I'm working from the KISS principle and also assuming that most criminals are stupid, so I'd guess this particular reject just grabbed a bunch of guns and magazines and did what he did, nothing special, just your typical, evil sub-human.

On that principle I'd assume he booked a room only a few days in advance, probably got a cancellation that he was able to pick up, or got a suite at an extra cost (those are sometimes available with less advance notice since they'll hold a few for people willing to pay for the privilege). No real advance planning besides checking to see if a room was available, preferably facing that direction (if not he probably would have picked some other target(s) of opportunity).

All my speculation is just that, but based on that premise that criminals are generally idiots.

[backwoods-engineer]

how did the shooter manage to get all the weaponry into the room without rousing suspicion of the hotel bellhop or cleaning staff?

So ignorant. Have you ever stayed in a hotel with firearms? Then please stop speculating about what you don't know. Every hotel I stay in, my room has at least 2 firearms, maybe 3. If I was going to a hunt in another state, you think I am going to leave my rifles in the truck? You people watch too much TV, and don't know any serious shooters or hunters.

[DCBryan1]

"Listen VERY closely to the audio. No manufactured fully auto weapon has a variable rate such as the one produced in the videos I have seen. My guess is he is using a semi auto weapon slide fed with a bumper thus rendering the gun fully auto. Once you pull off that first round you can stop until the rounds are expended" I concur. You can clearly hear the rate of fire slow then speed up in a choppy manner in the later shots. However the very first part of the audio there is a ten second burst with a very steady rate of fire. That burst sounds like a belt fed to me. He may have had one belt fed in one location then moved to the other and used a slide fire/bump fire stock or other full auto simulator. Shooter was almost certainly changing weapons during the shooting.

Could be using crappy ammo....I've had Wolf Tula 7.62 x39 go weird on me firing in an RPK (legal full auto post 1986 DS gun)...sounded just like that.

Im betting an AR 15 with slidefire, autoglove, or ECHO ARII trigger myself.

[DCBryan1]

I saw a legal M60 in a gun store for $5,000 ... in 1981.

I'll sell you a Maremont M60 NIB tranferable today for only $60,000.00 . Post sample gun is worth 10k with LEO Demonstration letter. Im up to 16 month wait on post 41f form 4 transfers. Form 3s are taking 2-3 months.

[precisionshootist]

Yes I would agree most likely full auto simulation but the first couple ten second plus bursts definitely sound 1919 like belt fed. later you get the choppy slide fire/bump fire type sound. What I was getting at earlier is if he had say a 1919 he may have had it set up in the first window then moved to the second shooting position and picked up a different weapon. There are two windows busted out indicating to different shooting positions. Belt feds like a 1919 are not easily moved by a single 64 year old man.

Just a theory but the money goes on multiple weapons with simulated full auto fire.