Posted on 09/27/2017 6:17:05 AM PDT by Hostage
September 27, 2017 A summary of understanding the issue is as thus:
THE 17TH AMENDMENT ALLOWED VOTERS TO 'HIRE' THEIR US SENATORS DIRECTLY WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT FRUITS WOULD BE CREATED.
A RECALL POWER ALLOWS VOTERS TO 'FIRE' THEIR US SENATORS ONCE THE ROTTING OF FRUITS BECOMES VISIBLE, BUT RECALL IS NOT SUFFICIENT.
VESTING BOTH HIRING AND FIRING IN VOTERS LEADS TO DENIAL AND TENSION IN THE 'FOG OF DISTANCE' AS ROTTEN FRUITS BECOME ALTERNATELY VISIBLE, THEN HIDDEN, THEN FORGOTTEN, SOWING CONFUSION AND FRUSTRATION.
A THREE-WAY SYSTEM OF ACCOUNTABILITY REMOVES THE FOG OF DISTANCE AND ALLOWS FOR INSPECTION AND REMOVAL OF ROTTEN FRUIT.
Washington DC is where I grew up. I have witnessed the change in its character. It is massively corrupt now more than ever in its history. The newer aspects and dimensions of its corruption stem from 1913's 17th Amendment.
Voters do not know their US Senators, they simply don't. They only know the fruits and they are not happy with the fruits. Give them the power to recall based on fruits, not on rhetoric. But unfortunately, recall is not enough because of lies, tricks, and the agenda of those that control federal dollars.
The 17th Amendment allows liars to ascend to the US Senate and once there they are bought off. They remain in power by the formation of political machines that build corporate FEDERAL contracting at the state levels. This weakens the nation.
Federal contracting weakens the nation because, in every state where there is a large federally funded employer, there will be federal codes that transform the American way of life to weaken its exceptional character and founding. There is a place for certain federal codes but not for every aspect of American life. There needs to be a limit to them. Massive federal codes covering every aspect of American life is an overreach that weakens the nation where it was once very strong and not in need of changing.
Secularism rises, devotion to God wanes, the Ten Commandments are removed, homosexuality is normalized and supplants traditional marriage and families, genders are confused, morality is mocked, the work ethic is degraded, protected classes are formed, legalism replaces justice, community cohesion disappears as community identities are lost, state legislatures become irrelevant leaving local voices with no say, socialism like an unhealthy mold grabs a foothold.
The Left loves the 17th Amendment because it allows all power to be shifted to one central government. It is efficient for them to operate centralized government. They are a minority nationwide but in Washington DC, they become a majority or are allowed to control the majority. At a state level in a large majority of states, they are less powerful if not powerless. The 17th Amendment allows the Left to turn red states purple, then blue by growing what Obama describes as the Urban Archipelago. . The pattern is familiar. A Senate candidate fools voters with rhetoric and once elected, obtains obscene access to funding for his or her state to maintain or grow federal contractors that become major employers. From then on, the US Senator is owned and is safe. The fruits of the US Senator do not matter. All that matters is the ability to buy crossover votes and to install opposing candidates who are controlled by the same interests or who are easily defeated.
Large federal contractors like General Electric or Hanover Insurance in Connecticut, or Northrup Corporation, Raytheon, and many, many others in Southern California, and countless others nationwide are all in a system of funding that is controlled from Washington DC with no state involvement. This funding apparatus allows federal persons and federally controlled organs to form beachheads of socialism at the state level. Banking and insurance cater first to federal contractors and federal offices. Wall St. Bankers repealed Glass-Steagall and wreaked havoc on home mortgage markets. Now they are on a glide path to create a nation of renters which will take a few decades but will reap enormous profits and control for banks. Medicare is the standard that all health insurers use to set rates and reimbursements and is now used to grow socialism everywhere with an ultimate goal of universal single-payer control of the population. All of these things are funded with trillions and trillions of federal debt for the purpose of consolidating nationwide power for federal persons and groups.
The federal government controls every aspect of life at a local level and the friendly next-door state legislators have zero say in it.
The people are easily fooled and have no power to reverse their decisions. Some states may have some voters that can vote out a US Senator after six years but not before the special interests behind that Senator create a machine of incumbency. The people may be victorious in one six-year election or two, but eventually, after decades backed by enormous funds provided by federal debt, the incumbent establishment in Washington DC will prevail. Popular voting is thus a losing proposition without local controls.
People complain about how is it that a mad twisted character like John McCain remains in the Senate for 30 years. It is because there is a lot of money behind him that eliminates his primary opponents through funding organizations that bring crossover votes, through massive smear advertising that tarnishes his primary opponents, and then majority conservative voters in a red state like Arizona have nowhere to go.
When states are once again allowed to APPOINT US Senators but WITH RECALL POWER at BOTH the state legislature and voter levels, all of the above ills will substantially subside. The country would be enormously helped and strengthened.
Regardless of an ever-present greed forming a negative tendency for corruption at both federal and state government, excluding state governments in favor of easily manipulated popular voting without recall power is a sham, a farce and even with recall power allows for the frustration and confusion of voters. Involvement of state legislatures is a must to allow voters with ultimate recall power to hold BOTH state legislatures and federally elected officials accountable. Removing state legislatures from the process of federal governance causes voters to be tricked, demoralized, and abandoned. Voters are close to their state legislators, they are neighbors. State legislators find it difficult if not impossible to hide from their voters.
Once voters use their popular vote to elect a liar, they are usually in denial when the fruits become visible. They are also easily confused by Senate parliamentary tricks. Senate leaders such as McConnell count votes and will manage who may vote against in order for a Senator to appear conservative or in tune with voters. McConnell has so many times cut a deal with so-called 'conservative' Senators where he demands their vote on cloture but then lets them vote against because he knows he has enough democrats and RINO votes to force through measures that strengthen the incumbent establishment in Washington DC. This confuses voters greatly because they can't make sense of what their US Senators are doing nor where they stand.
Jeff Sessions as US Senator voted for the 'secret' Iran Nuclear Deal. It was secret because if voters saw what it was, it would make Senators like Sessions look nuts and force them to explain themselves. Voters are left confused and fooled. The six-year popular vote with no accountability to state legislators allows for these types of shams to happen time and time again and for Senators such as Sessions to maintain an image of conservatism even as he is controlled by the incumbent establishment in secret deals. He is just one example of many. The popular vote fails miserably to stop this. Repealing the 17th will force US Senators such as Sessions to maintain a dialog with the state capitols and by way of this dialog to the voters themselves.
With US Senators appointed by state legislators, held accountable by state and voter recall power and with limited time in Washington DC, there will be little opportunity to build state-level federal machines and to use tricks that hide a Senator's true colors.
Having state legislatures involved again in national governance but with voter recall power will tend to minimize the overreach of federal encroachment. Without the involvement of state legislators, the federal encroachments will remain and grow. There will still be strong defense industries and projects but they will all be administered at the state level that will allow state voters to keep their way of life, keep their traditions, keep their government accountable.
Study history and view the concentration of centralized power in the United States which is now the United State. Most all of this federal malignancy is caused by the 17th Amendment. In 1913, the movement toward a popular vote of US Senators gained critical mass by the antics of some state legislators in a barrage of newly forming western states. Had the voters in those states had more time to develop more mature state government ties, there would be no 17th Amendment and the American way of life would not have suffered what it suffers today.
The original Constitution provided that states have a power in the control of the federal government but the 17th Amendment has turned that on its head. Today, we have the last gasp of opportunity short of revolution in Donald Trump's outsider independence to reverse the federal encroachment overreach. Now is the time to pass this proposed 28th amendment just as it is written by an input of many hands with differing opinions:
************************************************ AMENDMENT XXVIII ('Federal-State Rebalancing')
To restore the foundational structure of State Legislatures to Congress, the following amendment is proposed:
************************************************ Section 1. Senators in Congress shall be subject to recall by their respective state legislature or by voter referendum in their respective state.
Section 2. Term limits for Senators in Congress shall be set by a vote in their respective state legislatures but in no case shall be set less than twelve years nor more than eighteen years.
Section 3: The seventeenth article of amendment to the Constitution of the United States is hereby repealed.
************************************************
This amendment and any amendment that takes control of power and money out of Washington DC will NEVER be taken up as a proposed amendment by Congress. It must be taken up by an Article V application of state legislatures. The applications of state legislatures are now headed to a critical mass of states to force through such amendments. The Convention of States is one organization that provides this focus.
And guess who has come out against the Convention of States? Hillary the Psychopath Clinton. That speaks volumes to what's at stake.
But beware. As the Article V amendment process gains steam, it induces panic in the incumbent establishment. Watch the establishment 'warm' to these people amendments and offer to take them up, to offer their 'services', to provide 'leadership', to acknowledge that voters want changes made, and so on. Then watch as they plot to take these issues and craft the writing in such a way that they control the language and interpretation. Now look at the amendment above, look at its writing. It is written so that states and voters have control, not federal parties. Do not let federal establishment incumbents twist these issues for their own purposes.
Remember that no matter what Congress and its incumbency establishment do to subvert Article V amendments advanced in flyover country, the states still have the power to ratify. The establishment knows this and you can bet they will attempt to control such amendments in a long drawn out process that encourages such amendments to be lost and forgotten.
In light of Hillary Clinton’s vocal opposition to the Convention of States Project of Article V processes, please ping the list for discussion.
Repeal the 17th Amendment and Luther Strange gets a full term as Senator.
At least put it on general chat
To blame every thing that is wrong on passage of the seventeenth amendment is shallow reasoning at best
‘The Left loves the 17th Amendment because it allows all power to be shifted to one central government.’
Correct. Senators as state appointees ensured that the supreme sandwich court would never centralize power.
But it’s hard to take something away once it is given. Voters consider it their right to vote for power — it makes them feel enpowered, just as gun rights do.
I’m not talking about common sense but rather about human nature.
So that is why senate term limits and judicial term limits are growing more popular.
Here’s another idea: mandating fair debate. With skype it’s cheap and easy to host debates. So long as the only moderator is a timer, the debate is fair. No tyrant wants to subject himself to an annual bombardment of fair debates. If the debate is boring, no one watches. But when a tyrant or creep is ‘outed’, then it goes viral, especially at the state level.
No, he gets recalled. In fact, he gets hounded by a recall effort along with his dem opponent before a general election is held.
John McCain stopped Obamacare repeal.
And you’re criticizing those that lay blame on the 17th Amendment?
> “Voters consider it their right to vote for power — it makes them feel enpowered”
You are absolutely correct and that is precisely why the above amendment included voters to have the power to recall their US Senator outside the reach of even their state legislature.
The deal is for voters to TRADE THEIR RIGHT TO HIRE FOR A RIGHT TO FIRE.
This right to fire allows state legislatures to get back in the game and we know state legislators are our next door neighbors, really in many cases that is true.
Ah, well, yeah, making recall votes easier is a good idea and a matter of state legislation.
Where does this here “TWELVE TO EIGHTEEN years” thingy come from?
What’s wrong with the standard SIX?
It’s enough bullets for my S&W, and it’s enough years for ANY senator without re-election/confirmation.
Up to me—it would be FOUR, and the senator would end up running a state’s office in DC.
A six year term limit?
Hm. Six, certainly, for House members.
It would be kind of nice if a senator were up for re-election once I think.
Of course, we would probably have an easier time grandfathering current incumbents to ease this in.
I wouldn’t be opposed to a four year double term for the senate, or a ‘first term’ of four years followed by a final term of two years.
The thing is this — voters could hold a cudgel over the senator’s head. It would be a disgrace to not get re-elected.
12, 18 correspond to two and three terms. Some states want a two-term limit, others willing to grant a three-term limit.
That section allows states to choose.
A one-term limit is viewed as too harsh and stops voters from having an ability to reelect a popular Senator. More than three terms is viewed as too long, creating suspicion that the Senator is bought off.
Shortly before he died, I attended a lecture by Justice Scalia. He clearly said he believed that the 17th amendment was responsible for what is wrong with Washington DC swamp.
Good for him
I don’t agree.
There are lots of reasons D.C. and politics are the way they are
>”There are lots of reasons D.C. and politics are the way they are”
Feel free to list as many as you can.
bkmk
Correct Justice Scalia advocated two things: Repeal of the 17th and filing as many law suits as the ACLU has done for the 1st Amendment, but for the Second Amendment. He was baffled why an organization does not “cluster bomb” lawsuits on all levels of Government for the 2nd Amendment... He was a great American and very missed.
To Nifster, I don't blame all, but I do blame most bad things at the national level on the 17A.
If you are interested:
The Bitter Harvest of the 17th Amendment.
Direct Election of Senators and the Silent Artillery of Time: "So well-designed was the Framers’ structure, that America had forgotten the problematic nature of purely popular government which plagued and eventually destroyed overly democratic societies since the ancient Greek city-states."
Article V ping to a powerful vanity by Hostage!
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