Three challenging characteristics:
Posted on 09/12/2017 9:10:52 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer
FRANKFURT - European car bosses are beginning to address the realities of mass vehicle electrification, and its consequences for jobs and profit, their minds focused by government pledges to outlaw the combustion engine.
As the latest such announcement on Monday by China added momentum to a push for zero-emissions motoring, Daimler, Volkswagen and PSA Group gave details about their electric programs that could give policymakers some pause.
Planned electric Mercedes models will initially be just half as profitable as conventional alternatives, Daimler warned - forcing the group to find savings by outsourcing more component manufacturing, which may in turn threaten German jobs.
“In-house production is almost irrelevant to the consumer,” Daimler boss Dieter Zetsche told reporters in the midst of a German election campaign in which automotive jobs have loomed large.
A phase-out of combustion engines by 2030 could cost 600,000 jobs in Germany alone, the country’s Ifo economic institute has warned.
Since the battery is the single biggest-value item in an electric car, however, experts point out that mass adoption would shift business and jobs from European suppliers to China, which already dominates the automotive power-pack market.
Independent analyst Richard Windsor warned that far from boosting the industry, a shift to electric cars - which are expected to last longer than combustion-engined equivalents and require less maintenance - could inflict long-term damage.
“Vehicle makers are queuing up to announce their commitment to electric vehicles but at the same time they may be cheering for their own demise,” he said.
(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...
Did the Pope send them a memo?
Three challenging characteristics:
have you ever been to montana?
> “Electric” cars are powered by coal, natural gas, and nuclear power. <
Today, yes. But coal and natural gas contribute to scary Global Warming. So they’re out as a power source for the electric cars of the future. And nuclear reactors are even scarier.
What does that leave? Lightning bolts. And unicorns.
Yup, we’re getting pretty close to that now. 20 minute 100-mile recharge is available now, using batteries that cost about the same (or less) as an equivalent series of ICE repairs. 2-300 mile capacity & rapid charging isn’t far off.
Don’t underestimate the value of having your vehicle fully powered _every_morning_, to the point of “rapid charging” rarely being needed (get home, plug in, charged by morning). Also don’t forget the time spent traveling to/from a gas station _every_ ~300 miles.
Get happy, sign on.
If you must turn your wheels with electric motors, generating the electricity on board is always going to get you better performance than generating it somewhere else and storing it on board in batteries.
Like I keep saying, it’s not perfect for every scenario. Convertibles don’t do well in Montana either.
Have you been to Georgia? Great state for EVs.
That, my friend, is the hidden goal in all this. With an electric car you can’t escape. With a decent gas car, or better yet diesel, and a large enough fuel tank you can drive a couple of thousand miles. It makes it more difficult for the govt to get you in the crosshairs.
Maybe the EV advocates are the Luddites, wanting to take us back to the technology of the late 19th and early 20th centuries, when electric cars like the Baker Electric and the Detroit Electric were strong competitors for the gas-powered cars.
In their world, the consumer and the voter are irrelevant. The goose-stepping bastards with rifles (and the masters thereof) have all the say in it. Comply or die, comrade.
I could really get into a car with a big ass diesel generator in the trunk.
No storage problems with that set-up.
I’m not calling y’all luddites, just some (lots).
I _do_ oppose banning ICE vehicles.
I also oppose legislation unduly benefitting ICE vehicles (like the “dealership” rules that absolutely favor major auto makers).
And yes I generally oppose market subsidies, though as a matter of the imperative of cutting taxes I’ll go for tax credits wherever we can get them (a la “mortgage interest deduction”) since we can’t get across-the-board tax reductions (hold the line, kill it with a thousand cuts).
ICE are great, insofar as they’re optimal for certain conditions & situations.
Hybrids are great, insofar as they blend the best of both worlds.
EVs are great, insofar as the sheer simplicity is advantageous.
What gets me is every EV thread is piled-on by naysayers, mostly spewing the same inanities as before, almost as though they take personal offense to the notion that someone might seriously want an EV. I’d rather see a more libertarian/capitalistic view, simply opting for whatever product meets needs, and applauding those turning something borderline-feasible into a viable & desirable product.
Pot, kettle, black. ICE vehicles come from exactly the same era.
Kudos though for recognizing the EV origins. Forward-thinking stuff, as it took 21st century technology to make it viable, now poised to take over ICE. ICE was more feasible earlier, but tech has pretty much flattened out with no significant gains looming.
As western Europe heads down the path of total self-destruction via both muslim immigration and insane industrial policies of phasing out carbon fuel production and the internal engine, the U.S. is well-positioned to blow them totally out of the water economically. China and India are even better positioned, but the U.S. will benefit mightily.
I fully support the voluntary production and adoption of EV, without artificial incentive.
And without disadvantaging the ICE beyond normal market forces. As soon as government picks a side, I’m against it. And the government has chosen petroleum to be eradicated, one step/tax/regulation at a time.
Their intent is not to outlaw gasoline, but to make it cost $10 or more per gallon in 2017 dollars.
“and the battery technology is probably twenty to thirty years from some real range.”
battery technology has ALWAYS been 20-30 years away ever since Alessandro Volta invented the first true battery ...
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