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Carmakers face electric reality as combustion engine outlook dims
Reuters ^ | September 12, 2017 | by Laurence Frost, Edward Taylor

Posted on 09/12/2017 9:10:52 AM PDT by Oldeconomybuyer

FRANKFURT - European car bosses are beginning to address the realities of mass vehicle electrification, and its consequences for jobs and profit, their minds focused by government pledges to outlaw the combustion engine.

As the latest such announcement on Monday by China added momentum to a push for zero-emissions motoring, Daimler, Volkswagen and PSA Group gave details about their electric programs that could give policymakers some pause.

Planned electric Mercedes models will initially be just half as profitable as conventional alternatives, Daimler warned - forcing the group to find savings by outsourcing more component manufacturing, which may in turn threaten German jobs.

“In-house production is almost irrelevant to the consumer,” Daimler boss Dieter Zetsche told reporters in the midst of a German election campaign in which automotive jobs have loomed large.

A phase-out of combustion engines by 2030 could cost 600,000 jobs in Germany alone, the country’s Ifo economic institute has warned.

Since the battery is the single biggest-value item in an electric car, however, experts point out that mass adoption would shift business and jobs from European suppliers to China, which already dominates the automotive power-pack market.

Independent analyst Richard Windsor warned that far from boosting the industry, a shift to electric cars - which are expected to last longer than combustion-engined equivalents and require less maintenance - could inflict long-term damage.

“Vehicle makers are queuing up to announce their commitment to electric vehicles but at the same time they may be cheering for their own demise,” he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Government; News/Current Events
KEYWORDS: automakers; biggovernment; globalwarming; governmentmotors; toycars
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To: hal ogen

When their sales fall to near zero, they will realize their mistake.........................


121 posted on 09/12/2017 2:54:16 PM PDT by Red Badger (Road Rage lasts 5 minutes. Road Rash lasts 5 months!.....................)
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To: Oldeconomybuyer
push for zero-emissions motoring,

How about Displaced Emissions Motoring?

122 posted on 09/12/2017 3:23:15 PM PDT by arthurus
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To: the_Watchman

China has a corner on the market for the rare-earth elements because the rest of the world has given it to China.Rare earths are not particularly rare, just “dirty” to produce and other countries have pretty much regulated them out of local production. China is glad to take the pollution that results from production of these materials and have a governments-given monopoly. In reality there is no other kind of monopoly.


123 posted on 09/12/2017 3:27:19 PM PDT by arthurus
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To: Red Badger
Such a sudden injection of wealth could also worsen government corruption. Just last year, for example, Afghanistan's minister of mines was accused by U.S. officials of accepting a $30 million bribe to award China the rights to develop a copper mine.

China doesn't throw money like that away on propaganda.................


Yes but that bribe was for copper, not lithium...:^)

124 posted on 09/12/2017 4:38:27 PM PDT by az_gila
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To: momincombatboots

European countries phasing out nuclear for wind and sun. Somehow convinced can also shut down coal, then gas fired generation.


125 posted on 09/12/2017 6:20:28 PM PDT by Ozark Tom
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To: ctdonath2

I have no issues with people who want EVs. I simply know that I do not, and that an EV would be wildly inappropriate for my living situation (in the country, sketchy electric status when problems arise).

The issue I have is that the governmental bodies desperately want to “do something” about “climate change” by forcing people like me to use technology that is inappropriate and unwanted.


126 posted on 09/12/2017 6:30:03 PM PDT by MortMan (Nobody goes there any more. It's too crowded! [Y. Berra])
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To: Jim Noble

Fourth, it migrates through the walls of containers unless lined with amorphous alumina.


127 posted on 09/12/2017 6:34:28 PM PDT by Ozark Tom
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To: Seruzawa

https://www.wired.com/2010/11/range-extending-trailer-charges-your-ev-carries-your-gear/


128 posted on 09/12/2017 6:37:02 PM PDT by Ozark Tom
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To: ctdonath2

It is nice waiting 8 hours to fill-er-up!


129 posted on 09/12/2017 6:38:37 PM PDT by TheNext (Obamacare is KILLING GRANDMA!)
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To: ctdonath2

I live in the country, where you drive 50 miles to town, the power goes out often enough to make a generator useful, and it goes down to -25 in the winter.

I need a new Suburban, not an electric car.


130 posted on 09/12/2017 7:19:15 PM PDT by Jim Noble (Single payer is coming. Which kind do you like?)
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To: central_va

Why assume the top-up at a Tesla Supercharger will always be free. It’s a loss-leader to sell a car. Likewise adding the automotive demand for charging to the grid might well increase electric cost.

Many want solar and wind—no coal, or gas, or nuclear. They haven’t a way to meet demand without viable storage. They can overbuild renewable and produce expensive power, or time-share ration the electrical distribution.


Something that could make the solar and wind fan club happy. Skip the fluff introduction and drill down to the discussion of hardware, logistics, and capitol investment. A smaller version of this concept might pan out for storage:

http://launchloop.com/PowerLoop


131 posted on 09/12/2017 7:48:55 PM PDT by Ozark Tom
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To: pepsionice

I’m told by friends and family in Florida, they expect to be without power for 2 weeks or more, depending. How long to charge one of these POS with a generator? The longer it takes the more gas you have to feed to the gen.!


132 posted on 09/13/2017 4:06:22 AM PDT by BlackbirdSST (MAGA! USA USA USA! White Nationalist Speak! -- CNN)
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To: Ozark Tom; central_va
Why assume the top-up at a Tesla Supercharger will always be free.

They have discontinued free lifetime charging except for the most expensive new cars. They allow for something like 1K free miles per year, then charge a modest fee. On another note, they are coming out with a new supercharger for big city dwellers that don't have access to electrical outlets at home or work. The charge time will be double the regular highway supercharger charge time. I suspect they are doing it to reduce wear and tear on the battery.

133 posted on 09/13/2017 5:28:13 AM PDT by EVO X
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To: TheNext

In 2 years, I only had to “wait” maybe 4 times. The rest of the time it was fully charged every morning or after work.

Contrast: add up the time spent driving to/from a gas station over 2 years.


134 posted on 09/13/2017 6:10:43 AM PDT by ctdonath2 (It's not "white privilege", it's "Puritan work ethic". Behavior begets consequences.)
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To: ctdonath2

i was a long haul trucker for 30 years,so iv’e been everywhere.


135 posted on 09/13/2017 8:19:51 AM PDT by old gringo (a wise monkey never monkeys with another monkeys monkey.)
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To: Moltke

Yeah, I forgot about that guy. Either way, Daimler Benz looted Chrysler of all of their capital, and then dumped them when they no longer had a use for them. I remember Zetsche from when he made an appearance at the plant that I was working at. Made all sorts of grand gestures and promises, and then turned around and closed the plant a year later. Some of the machinery from that plant ended up down in mexico at the plant that makes hemis.


136 posted on 09/13/2017 9:22:50 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it. MAGA!)
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To: factoryrat

So both Chrysler and Daimler lost bigly? Daimler stock lost billions due to that fiasco.


137 posted on 09/13/2017 10:01:57 AM PDT by Moltke (Reasoning with a liberal is like watering a rock in the hope to grow a building)
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To: Moltke

Chrysler lost. Daimler walked away with Freightliner, Western Star, Detroit Diesel, and formed Sterling from those, along witb a foothold in the north american diesel truck market. That’s what Daimler Benz does, they’re a medium-heavy truck manufacturer. The bought into cash cow Chrysler to finance those purchases, and then sold the corpse to Cerberus group, who bled them dry, and dumped them in bankruptcy court.

This type of business practice is still going on to this day within the auto industry.

The auto industry is a cut throat business that runs on razor thin margins. You either beat your competition in sales, undercut them on price, buyout or steal their suppliers, offshore your supply chain, or buy them outright and gut them.

Dog eat dog at its finest. This is how they’ve operated since the turn of the 20th century.

If you don’t have the stomach for that type of business, or if you let your morals cloud your business decisions, then find another industry to invest in.


138 posted on 09/13/2017 10:42:32 AM PDT by factoryrat (We are the producers, the creators. Grow it, mine it, build it. MAGA!)
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To: catnipman

-—China and India -—
There you have it.

Europe is seriously ill and dying. There can be no recovery.

The future is Asia including Japan and Taiwan. The Arabs know it and have positioned the GCC to take the place of the British and other taipans by building banking and distribution facilities.

East of suez is where it’s at. There are literally billions of young people that are ambitious and energetic and will make it happen.


139 posted on 09/13/2017 11:00:53 AM PDT by bert (K.E.; N.P.; GOPc;WASP .... The Fourth Estate is the Fifth Column)
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To: factoryrat

Ah, thanks for the additional info. Wasn’t aware of that.


140 posted on 09/14/2017 2:44:52 AM PDT by Moltke (Reasoning with a liberal is like watering a rock in the hope to grow a building)
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