Posted on 02/14/2017 11:01:04 AM PST by elhombrelibre
Like the shallow and arrogant Obama and Clinton, and their scheming neo-con apparatchiks Nuland and Geoffrey Pyatt, perhaps Trump doesn’t realize Russia’s access to the warm-water Black Sea and Crimea has been a nearly 400 year project for Russia.
While we’re at it, lets demand China vacate Hong Kong
Correction:
... after the Russian occupation of Crimea, which pre-dated the referendum. I screwed up the history.
Given the pathetic state of US armed forces (thanks both to Obama and the Republicans who stood by watching it happen), the US would be extremely hard-pressed to confront two conflicts simultaneously, one in East Asia (China, NK) or Europe (Russia and the Baltics).
Trump could arrange a bargain with the Russians where the annexation of Crimea is recognized in exchange for:
a) withdrawal of forces from eastern Ukraine and a cessation of hostilities there;
b)Some gas/oil deal for Ukraine;
c) No NATO or EU expansion to Belarus or Ukraine (trade treaties OK);
c) Russia re-enters the Intermediate Range Nuclear Forces treaty (no Iskanders in Kaliningrad);
c) Russia re-enters the Conventional Forces In Europe Treaty (armor moved east);
d) US and Europe drop trade sanctions;
e) US assists Russia in oil/gas exploration;
d) US, Russia, and Saudis agree to force Iran to cut oil exports and guarantee market share to Russia in exchange;
f)Russia stops arming Iran;
g) Russia and US cooperate against ISIS and partition Syria;
h) Russia agrees to remain neutral in any US-China-NK conflict
You might say this asks a lot of the Russians, we might throw in removal of new, permanent NATO bases from Baltics. The sanctions are hurting the Russians: Putin has already had to cut his defense expenditures. The Russians also have to know that NATO poses no strategic threat to Russia-- this is all about prestige, so if we combine economic incentives with high level cooperation, we can probably get a lot. They also have to know that China poses the only real strategic threat to Russia, especially over the Amur river basin in Siberia, which Russia seized in the 19th century.
The two are mutually exclusive.
I guess your argument is with the POTUS.
BTW, they could easily do it (take Western Europe). Who would stop them?
Yes. I presume he’s saying so only for diplomatic reasons, because he can’t be such a God-damned fool as to literally “expect” Russia to hand over Crimea.
Putin isn’t that stupid. His troops aren’t even performing well in Ukraine. And they’d be no match for a combined joint operation of all NATO nations.
You mean he’s lying?
It has been obvious for some time that they are intent on starting some sort of showdown with Russia.
Why?
I have no idea - But where Hillary and Obama were once bending over for Putin, democrats now seem to want a war with him.
If democrats could maneuver President Trump into a confrontation with Putin they would damage him and further alienate Russia - both of which seem to be their objectives.
I agree. NATO is no threat, but it’s strong enough to stop an invasion. It’d be a no win situation for both sides. Putin can cut a good deal; he can take the exit ramp being offered. Or he can grandstand and continue to see their economy go south. Russian GDP is the size of Spain’s. The USA’s GDP is fifteen times the size of Putin’s. Continuing a new Cold War will only destroy his economy. Trump could open the oil reserves the USA has and destroy Russian exports. We can have a win/win, or not.
“And they’d be no match for a combined joint operation of all NATO nations.”
Wait until the UN gets involved. Russia will run for cover.
I don’t see a popular movement in the Crimea to go back to being under the control of the Ukraine.
I think there was/is enough indiscriminate shelling going on in Donbass to make both parties guilty of same. Motorized infantry. Tanks. Self-propelled arty. Leaves civilians little time to evacuate. Hence, quite a number killed/wounded on both sides. And many of the wounds are quite horrific. And will continue to be.
the inhabitants of Crimera want to be part of Russia
it’s for these people to decide not washington
Yeah, I wonder why there is no popular movement there. Could it be dangerous to life and liberty?
Your argument is with the POTUS. I guess he believes Putin does not decide what borders he will change by force of arms.
What’s wrong with Russia’s warm water port at Rostov-on-Don?
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