Posted on 02/08/2017 11:53:10 AM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
Which GOP do you belong to? That's a question every Republican has been pondering since Donald Trump commandeered the party and won the White House.
There is, first, the old Grand Old Party — the party of Ronald Reagan, George W. Bush, John McCain, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, and an array of conservative movement activists, think tank staffers, journalists, and lobbyists. This party favors lower taxes (especially on the wealthy), less regulation, and smaller government, except when it comes to military spending, which it aims to increase to maintain America's position of global dominance and role as "leader of the free world."
Then there are the Trumpists — populist and nationalist Republicans (like White House senior counselor Stephen Bannon) who blend a mania for cutting taxes and government programs with an enthusiasm for trade tariffs, border walls, and immigration bans from majority-Muslim countries. This GOP also promises to increase defense spending, but not to contribute to the leadership of anything. It advocates putting "America first," by which it means that the United States should do whatever it wants anywhere it wants, including, perhaps, "taking the oil" from Iraq, backing away from our commitments to NATO, and turning a blind eye to Vladimir Putin's aggression in Eastern Europe....
(Excerpt) Read more at theweek.com ...
I'm not necessarily advocating it, just observing the trend and predicting it.
When Conservatives figure out how to purge Islam from America without violating their precious Freedom of Religion in the 1st Ammendment .....let me know.
When Conservatives figure out how to prevent sub 90 IQ people from voting for leftist policies by the tens of millions.....let me know.
When Conservatives figure out how to prevent billionaire CEOs from bullying average citizens and even state governments in pursuit of radical social justice without going against their holy free market principles.....let me know.
And I could go on.
They'll pontificate about Conservative theory and the Constitution, ignoring history, science, and reality itself.
Nobody is buying what Conservatism is selling anymore.
It's a failed non-ideology. The "founder" of modern Conservatism, Russell Kirk, said as much. It's not an ideology, it's an attitude.
It has failed and will continue to fail.
I have blind loyalty to saving western civilization. Conservatism has clearly demonstrated it is not capable of that task.
Quite the opposite.
A new Right-wing ideology is forming and will replace modern conservatism. It will be based on identity politics.
Again , not advocating it, just observing and predicting.
Your brand of conservatism is impossible now. The demographics won't support it.
The answer to culturally hostile people coming into America is in a Conservative immigration policy such as we had from the early 1920s till 1965. There is no great mystery. Only the lack of will among Party "moderates" and internationalists. Your wanting to make it simply on the basis of hostility to one of the many anti-American culture groups, is actually self-defeating. The campaign should be in the form of a celebration of the settler heritage. (The anti's will get on the bandwagon. We do not have to antagonize anyone but the looneys who insult all peoples with the demeaning pretense that we are all interchangeable.)
When Conservatives figure out how to prevent sub 90 IQ people from voting for leftist policies by the tens of millions.....let me know.
It is no great secret. Here is my approach, for the least painful way to do this. You simply address the obvious conflict of interest in the way people are bought: Threat To Liberty.
You continually ignore the actual Conservative positions by attributing a non-existent Conservatism to opportunists & poseurs. That actual Conservatism is readily salable by those with the will to do so, was just demonstrated by Donald Trump winning an election while spending far less than his foes, despite the almost universal hostility of the mass media. (See Metaphor For American Conservatism.)
He also understood what was necessary for a social safety net which did not undermine the character of those dependent on same. See Jefferson on Welfare!
Those who understand and apply the American tradition need never lose a debate to any of the Leftists sucking the substance out of our heritage.
They just did on November 8th, and only a few of the main points in my "brand of conservatism," were in play.
True Conservatism has always been about continuity; not an arbitrary check list of verbalizations. Stop using an arbitrary definition, which allows charlatans to claim a mantle they have neither earned or deserve.
They just did on November 8th, and only a few of the main points in my "brand of conservatism," were in play.
That's where you're wrong. Conservatism didn't win on Nov 8th.
White people making a desperate last effort and screaming "SAVE US!" won the election.
Look at the voting demographics.
Trump didn't campaign on many of the Conservative idols such as ending/privatizing Social Security and "Free" Trade.
He didn't preach tax cuts! tax cuts! tax cuts! with a holy furor.
He DID say he would use government power to force companies to stay in the country. That's not "Conservative." That's actually heresy to "Conservatives."
Another reason Conservatism didn't win this election: Trump FOUGHT BACK and hard against the Dems and the media.
Fighting back hard against Liberals is in NO way "Conservative."
There is almost no evidence that any "Conservative" has successfully fought back against Democrat slime going back 50 years.
(Liberals STILL make fun of Dan Quayle. Just one example)
Because that's not what "Conservatives" do. It's not in their mindset. I've observed it for decades, so has all of America.
Read this article about Conservatives, posted here yesterday: http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2017/02/07/david-horowitz-stephen-miller-a-second-thoughts-warrior/
Fighting back against Liberal hate isn't throwing facts and logic at them. They're immune to that.
Fighting back isn't "I challenge you to a debate!" (I witnessed Ted Cruz do that last year)
Fighting back is calling Hillary Clinton "Crooked" every single day in the world wide media.
Fighting back is bringing Bill Clinton's rape victims to a PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE and explaining to the world what he did.
THAT'S FIGHTING BACK.
Did any Conservatives tell the world about Ted Kennedy and the waitress sandwich? What about Chappaquiddick?
Reagan never talked about that stuff. Conservatives literally worship Reagan, but even he was mostly polite to Democrats.
Conservatives aren't warriors. Far from it.
I know you'll disagree. But America knows that Conservatives aren't warriors, because they have witnessed Conservatives get bitch slapped by Democrats for decades with no pushback. The Horowitz article clearly explains that. I've read many pieces that say the same thing over the years.
Verdict: "Conservatives" are weaklings and p*ssies. I know you disagree, but your opinion doesn't count against the collective opinion of the world and at least 50 years of history.
I think your biggest problem with my argument is that the New Right, Alt Right, whatever doesn't have "Conservative" principles. You think: we're all being fooled by hucksters and statists!
That's where you're wrong. "Conservatives" don't have a monopoly on right wing principles. They don't.
A "Conservative" is a very specific person, with "Conservatism" being a very specific mindset and policy positions (not ideology.)
"Conservatives" are elitist or churchy sissies that claim to want small government and pontificate about the Constitution while the nation is burning around them, because they're too polite to do anything about it.
I'm sure you and many others will disagree with that, but it doesn't matter. That ship sailed long ago. That is the perception, and that perception has been the opinion of American voters for decades. Again, I've read many pieces about voters' perceptions of Republicans over the years. "Stuffy" "Arrogant" "Nerdy"
So what's more important? The actual track record of "Conservatives" and what they think about themselves? Or what America has observed them do, and fail to do, for 50 years?
Again, the New Right, Alt Right, whatever, is just as right wing with most of the same principles about government and society as "Conservatives",
but they're not "Conservatives" because they don't want to lose miserably year after year.
You still haven't explained how "Conservatives" plan to purge Islam from America while maintaining the 1st Amendment Freedom of Religion.
The New Right, Alt Right, whatever WILL have a plan for it.
That’s where you’re wrong. Your blind loyalty to the leader at all costs won’t do the trick. Populism isn’t going to save Western civilization. neither is liberalism.
Your rejection of the principles of the Constitution marks you as a progressive. Your attacks on conservatism make it seem odd that you’re on what you’ve probably forgotten is a conservative website.
That’s where you’re wrong. Your blind loyalty to the leader at all costs won’t do the trick. Populism isn’t going to save Western civilization. neither is liberalism. Your rejection of the principles of the Constitution marks you as a progressive. Your attacks on conservatism make it seem odd that you’re on what you’ve probably forgotten is a conservative website.
More magical thinking and denial.
Your blind loyalty to the leader at all costs won’t do the trick.
I have blind loyalty to saving America and Western Civilization than any blind loyalty to anybody.
Trump is the first leader in decades to use language like "save Western civilization."
Your rejection of the principles of the Constitution marks you as a progressive.
Complete bullshit. Wimpy P*ssy "Conservatives" don't have a monopoly on conservative values or right wing philosophy.
Please explain how to purge Islam from America without breaking the 1st Amendment Freedom of Religion?
The Conservative's slavish fetish-like devotion to the Constitution makes them more irrelevant every year. The Constitution is not a magical artifact that will automatically save our civilization. Far from it.
You're still confused. "Conservatism" is a very specific thing. "Conservatism" is not the only answer for right wing philosophy.
"Conservatism" is only a MINDSET, not an ideology. The founder of "Conservatism" in America, Russell Kirk, said this. He made is very clear that "Conservatism" is NOT an ideology, it's simply a mindset.
William F. Buckley made similar statements. He said that the "Conservative" simply stands in the way of the onward march of the Left, yelling "Stop!" I'm paraphrasing, of course.
That is a DEFENSIVE posture. That's why "Conservatism" has LOST LOST LOST LOST for so long. It's a defensive posture and an attitude. Not an ideology.
The true deplorables are those poseurs who would have been laughed out of the county, had they sought to sell their confused objectives & proposals in any County Seat in the 1840s.
Conservative means someone who seeks to Conserve. People who seek to promote grandiose schemes, foreign or domestic, at the expense of their heritage, at the expense of their fellow citizens & native communities are not Conservative.
For example, just who do you think the " White people making a desperate last effort and screaming "SAVE US" were. Who do think is more conservative, more dedicated to conserving American values, those screaming White people--who if you look more closely were generally of this generation of the multi-generational pursuit that is any Nation--or the "never Trump" cadre of poseurs, whose only Conservative value is a desperate effort to pretend to be what they manifestly are not?
You do not change the issues in the slightest by calling the heart of the American Conservative base "desperate White people." You merely obfuscate what Conservatism is all about--has always been all about.
I do not mean to sound arrogant in recommending my Conservative Debate Handbook. You would probably agree with virtually all the Chapters, which deal with much of the subject matter that you set up, with the essential difference, it shows how to get to the resulting issues in the context of the multi-generational project launched by the leaders of the settler communities in the period 1775-1791.
Unlike the sham "Conservatives," denounced, my handbook concedes virtually nothing--nothing whatsoever--to the Left or what has become accepted by far too many Republicans in the 20th & 21st Centuries.
Incidentally, the debate purpose is not really to convert the compulsion driven egalitarian neurotics who have always been the "useful idiots of the Left." It is to expose their indefensible lunacy--to use them as a foil to wake up their victims--that is the rest of us.
I grew up in teh conservative movement, and I had the privilege of knowing Dr. Kirk at Hillsdale and thereafter. I also knew Bill Buckley, slightly. My parents were involved in the founding of the Conservative Party.
Conservatism is not an ideology, but it does have certain defining principles. Blind loyalty to the leader is not one of them.
We are, as Dr. Kirk would say, the defenders of the permanent things — of tradition, of liberty, of the principles of the Declaration, the Constitution, and the bill of Rights. It is those things that matter to me, not any tribe or any personality.
We can adjust policy — and sometimes, even disagree with each other about it — but we stand on the founding principles of America. And we must stand in defense of them whether or not our leaders do.
Conservatism does not have to be on the defensive — that is why we keep losing ground. We need to go on offense in defense of our principles that define our philosophy. And I will support whoever is doing so in the degree to which he or she does so.
I agree with most of what you said. I don't know where you get this idea of "blind loyalty to a leader."
I do agree that people that hold conservative principles need to go on the offensive. But mainstream Conservatives will NEVER go on the offensive.
There is no evidence that any mainstream Conservative has ever really won an engagement with the Left. Quite the contrary. Conservatives join with the Left and actively destroy their own allies when under assault by the Left.
I still think you're confused with the idea that ONLY Conservatives have right wing principles. They don't.
The New Right, Alt-Right, Alt-Lite and several other movements are on the rise.
Conservatives have a 50+ year history of embarrassing failure on every front.
New right wing groups and leaders will emerge.
Conservatives will hem and haw and whine and proclaim that "they're not TRUE Conservatives!" and try to prevent the members of the New Right from joining them.
What silly Conservatives fail to understand is that the New Right, Alt-Right, Alt-Lite, Trumpians, Populists, Nationalists, etc. have NO desire to join with the Conservatives.
The above groups are happy letting mainstream Conservatives continue down their path to irrelevancy as cucks and pets of the Left.
I’m an old YAFer. Founded two chapters. We were usually on the offensive. The Conservative Caucus will play offense. conservatives here at FR, whether “mainstream” or not, play offense.
You say, “Conservatives join with the Left and actively destroy their own allies when under assault by the Left.”
No, Republicans do that. Conservatives don’t.
But when people try to include either RINOs or alt-right Stormfront types in the conservative coalition, we will not permit that to happen. Conservatism is a big tent,. but not big enough to welcome those who oppose our basic principles.
Your reading of conservatives is completely wrong. And the groups you listed are not defenders of teh permanent things.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree on this.
You're obviously a "Conservative."
But when people try to include either RINOs or alt-right Stormfront types in the conservative coalition, we will not permit that to happen. Conservatism is a big tent,. but not big enough to welcome those who oppose our basic principles.
The New Right, Alt Right, Nationalists, ALt-Lite, and all other normal non-Leftists want NO PART of conservatism or the conservatism movement.
We're much more interested in victory and saving Western civilization.
The people who are saving Western civilization are those who stand for teh permanent things. That’s not the alt-right and it’s not the populists.
The people who are saving Western civilization are those who stand for teh permanent things. That’s not the alt-right and it’s not the populists.
Conservatives has consistently comprised their fake principles for decades. They have stood up for NOTHING.
In a few years, Conservatives will be defending trannies. Count on it.
National Review already featured a piece about it. "The Conservative Case for Transgender Rights."
Conservatives compromise and surrender everything to the Left.
Please stay on your sinking ship with the other losers.
No, again, you're confusing conservatives with Republicans. Very different breed of cat.
I'll defend the right of transgender people and any one else not to be bullied or subjected to violence. Any conservative would. That doesn't mean that they should use the other sex's bathroom.
Conservatives compromise and surrender everything to the Left.
Again, wrong. Those are Republicans you're talking about.
This is a conservative site, at least officially. Rush Limbaugh, SEan Hannity, Laura Ingraham, our favorite senators and congressmen, are all part of the conservative movement. Nice of you to reveal that you want nothing to do with them.
You must have hated CPAC.
You're in denial and living in the past.
Cuckservative Political InAction Committee means nothing to the 100 million Americans out of work or to every institution in Western Civilization that has been surrendered to the Left.
I used to think I was a Conservative. Many of us did.
Then we woke up and saw their cowardice and treachery.
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