Skip to comments.Can the Catholic Church Survive Without a Pope and a Vatican?
Posted on 06/07/2016 10:14:36 AM PDT by pinochet
If you are knowledgeable about Catholic history, then you may be aware of the hundreds of movements that arose to destroy the Catholic Church over the centuries. Islam wiped out the Catholic Church from North Africa and the Middle East in the first millenium. Adam Weishaupt (1748-1830), a former Catholic Law Professor, who became one of the most bitter enemies of the Catholic Church in history, founded the secret society, the Bavarian Illuminati, with the specific purpose of destroying the Catholic Church.
Napoleon Bonaparte, the atheist dictator who waged war on Europe to promote his atheist ideology, sent his troops to occupy the Vatican. Napoleon then had Pope Pius VII (1742-1823) arrested and thrown into prison, and he tried to change Catholic teachings to serve his atheist agenda. Napoleon did not succeed in changing church teachings.
The globalists of the post World War Two Era were interested in promoting population control and eugenics on a global level. They were outraged by the fact that the Catholic Church was their chief opponent, and they sought new and clever ways of destroying the church - infiltration, money, and blackmail. Globalists had some influence on Vatican II, but they were enraged when Pope Paul VI released the encyclical, Humanae Vitae. The encyclical saw the normalization of contraception as a threat to the future of the Christian nations of the world. The encyclical resulted in open rebellion by many Bishops and priests against the encyclical. How prophetic the encyclical has been, now that Muslims, who discourage contraception, are now inheriting the Christian Continent of Europe.
The liberal media is telling us that many Vatican officials live under conditions of sexual blackmail, some of which may be due to entrapment: http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/feb/21/pope-retired-amid-gay-bishop-blackmail-inquiry
The so-called Catholic sex abuse "crisis" was initiated by the same globalists who promote Gay-Straight alliances in American high schools, and the takeover of the boy scouts by radical gay activists. Massive sexual abuse is going on against boys in public schools and the boy scouts by radical gay activists, and is being covered up by the globalists and their controlled media. The former Hollywood child star, Corey Feldman, revealed that sexual abuse of children is so shockingly widespread in Hollywood, that is considered to be a normal way of doing business. The media has not called for Hollywood to be investigated.
I am not trying to minimize misconduct by renegade priests. What I am trying to say, is that the governments that support the global population control agenda, use their intelligence agencies to spy on Catholic Bishops and priests, in a more thorough manner than they spied on Martin Luther King. You see, spying technology is more advanced than it was when Martin Luther King was alive. Another thing that people are not aware of, is that people have been paid money to make false accusations against Bishops and priests. The best known example is the false accusations that were made against the late Cardinal Bernardin of Chicago. The initial accusations received wide media publicity. But the accuser later admitted that his accusations were false, but this admission did not receive media publicity. The poor Cardinal's reputation was ruined, anyway.
If the local diocese and church is not receiving leadership from the Vatican, can the Catholic Church survive?
The good news is that many conservative Protestants are beginning to recognize the wisdom of Humanae Vitae, and are coming to realize that traditionalists Catholics are the best friends they have in the world.
The Catholic church is the Vatican
Lost me there.
The scandal was both the priests who abused those children committed to their care and the hierarchy that shuffled them around and enabled them to abuse more children in new places.
Shouldn’t have too.
Maybe, picking a Christian as a Pope before the smoke goes up would help.
I agree, whole heartedly. The Preists were/are men. And all men are sinners. I would accept that explanation if the Catholic Church acted and turn these perverts over to the authorities.
Instead, the princes of the Vatican took unbelievable steps to protect their own, instead of acting to protect children. I will never forgive the Bishops and Cardinals who have ruined the church.
>>Lost me there
I did not deny that abuses took place. The important question is whether the Catholic priests were abusing children at a higher rate than people with similar positions of responsibility, such as public school teachers. The Catholic League revealed that the priests abused children at a much lower rate than public school teachers.
I am not trying to minimize child abuse. But we must not be statistically illiterate. In a Church of 1.1 billion people, with hundreds of thousands of priests, to expect a 100 percent record of perfection is to be unrealistic, when we do not hold teachers, doctors, cops, firemen, and people in other respected professions to a similar standard.
Watching this ‘pope’ I would hope we could survive, but I’m beginning to wonder if our Church is going to survive Francis and if America is going to survive Barky...
So, IMO, I talk to God a lot these days....
Since Christ is the head of his Church...
I’m sure he can lead the Church without man made insitutions...
Like the Vatican...
Yup. People who wish to destroy the Church are certainly using the sex scandals as a big stick to wield against it.
But they didn’t cause the Priests to engage in that abuse. And it didn’t force the hierarchy to keep covering it up.
I have read that homosexual activists pushed very hard for the Church to accept homosexuals into the priesthood.
>>The Catholic League revealed that the priests abused children at a much lower rate than public school teachers.
School teachers are not “men of God”.
School teachers do not take a vow of chastity.
School teachers are not called “Father” by the parents of the children they molest.
Amen. The Church teaches that the Priest is Jesus’ stand-in here on Earth. As such he needs to be held to a WAY higher standard.
No. That is a false straw-man argument that justifies the existence of sexual abuse in the Catholic denomination. The Christian standard is none. The group that claims to be the church in direct submission to God has a much higher standard than "school teachers, doctors, cops, firemen, etc."
One is too many in the church. The "statistical argument" is a fraud that says, "hey, we are no worse than people who don't claim to be God's people."
I am not trying to minimize child abuse.
But you are minimizing it while also excusing the existence of sexual predators in your organization by comparing them to those who are outside the church.
Even worse, this sexual preying on the young was covered up and the perpetrators were not stricken from the priesthood, but were shuffled around to protect them, instead of children. It was a huge disaster for Catholicism. Immeasurable damage to the reputation.
When, oh when, will a Catholic stand up and condemn the actions of priests and bishops and the hierarchy and demand they be defrocked, instead of given jobs out of sight?
“The good news is that many conservative Protestants are beginning to recognize the wisdom of Humanae Vitae, and are coming to realize that traditionalists Catholics are the best friends they have in the world.”
Just in time to usher in the AntiChrist and End Times.
Call it the “Ecumenical Church”.
Cardinal Bernadine was guilty. In fact, he was far worse than just a predator. He actively worked to undermine the Catholic Church.
"The Catholic church is the Vatican."
Careful here: the term "Vatican" has quite a polysemic spread.
So yes; but only if you are using "Vatican" as a metonym for the "Catholic Church," especially in its centralized governance relating especially to global administratiom.
But no, in the wider historic sense this is not so, since there was a "Catholic Church" before there was a Vatican, and even before there was anything like central governance.
For instance, "the Vatican" did not convene the Council of Jerusalem (book of Acts), nor did it convene the First Ecumenical Council (Nicaea), although it was understood that the Bishop of Rome was needed to "receive" or decisively confirm its decisions.
Like every bishop, the popes beginning even in the 1st and 2nd centuries were surrounded by priests, some of whom functioned as their emissaries and advisors. Any diocese had colleges of priests who met regularly to form councils to help extend the bishop's leadership. Thus the Pope surrounded himself with other bishops around Rome to hear their advice.
However, the word "curia" was not even used in the Church by a papal document in 1089, during the reign of Pope Urban II. So the "Vatican" as the seat of the "curia" was not totally centralized in the first centuries or even the first millennium of the Church.
There was a Catholic Church before there was a Vatican. If the Vatican got nuked to dust by ISIS, there would still be a Catholic Church.
I am all for getting a Catholic Pope
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