We should tell them the same now.
They should have been kicked out of NATO that very day.
I'm not sending my kids.
Maybe Obama will send his.
Posted on 11/24/2015 1:45:02 PM PST by SeekAndFind
If you’re worried that Turkey’s going to use Article 5 of NATO to drag the U.S. and other western nations into a hot war with Russia, don’t be. Sounds from this response like NATO will fall apart before anyone goes to the mat for the Turks.
NATO ambassadors called on Ankara to show “cool-headedness” on Tuesday following an emergency meeting in Brussels, after Turkey shot down a Russian warplane near the Syrian border, diplomats said.
Diplomats present at the meeting told Reuters that while none of the 28 NATO envoys defended Russia’s actions, many expressed concern that Turkey did not escort the Russian warplane out of its airspace.
On the one hand, this wasn’t the first violation of Turkish airspace lately by a Russian jet. Erdogan’s complained about it to NATO before; NATO’s secretary-general said last month that the frequency and duration of the intrusions made it hard to believe Russia isn’t doing it purposefully. Turkey got tired of asking Russia nicely to stay out — and asking, and asking, as they reportedly warned the pilots of the jet that was brought down today 10 times in five minutes to scram ASAP. (Did Russia actually violate their airspace today, though? Moscow denies it.) On the other hand, the point of Article 5 obviously isn’t to trigger a regional war because a Russian jet en route to a target in Syria strayed a mile into Turkish territory or whatever it was. The paradigm case for Article 5 is hundreds of Russian tanks rolling towards Warsaw or Berlin, not one jet being a little too cute about Russia’s new hegemony in western Syria. Show of hands: Who thinks Europe’s militaries are going to spring into action after a long hiatus from major wars to enforce the integrity of Turkish airspace to the last inch?
Putin called the shootdown a “stab in the back” by western allies who are supposed to be fighting ISIS with him and warned of “very serious consequences,” but he might be willing to endure one embarrassment without retaliating in the name of avoiding escalation. Would he be willing to endure two, though?
Turkmen forces in Syria shot dead the two pilots of a Russian jet downed by Turkish warplanes near the border with Turkey on Tuesday as they descended with parachutes, a deputy commander of a Turkmen brigade told reporters.
“Both of the pilots were retrieved dead. Our comrades opened fire into the air and they died in the air,” Alpaslan Celik, a deputy commander in a Syrian Turkmen brigade said near the Syrian village of Yamadi as he held what he said was a piece of a pilot’s parachute.
Turkmen are ethnic Turks in Syria who have no association with the state of Turkey, but that’s not the point. The point is that killing the pilots, while they were defenseless on their way to the ground, will make the affront of the jet being shot down sting even more in Russia. And there’s actually yet another incident in Syria today that the Kremlin can use for anti-western propaganda if it wants, and this one’s on video too. Watch the clip below of Syrian rebels using a TOW missile, presumably supplied by Uncle Sam, to take out a Russian-made helicopter being operated by Assad’s army. RT, a Russian house organ, has already picked it up and claimed that not only was the helicopter on a search-and-rescue mission for the downed jet pilots but a Russian marine was killed in the TOW strike. Why this is circulating so widely online, apart from the gee whiz factor, I don’t know; Russia’s been bombing U.S.-allied rebels since they began flying sorties in Syria so it’s not as if America’s allies attacking Russia’s allies is some strange new escalation of the reality on the ground. The proxy war has been raging for weeks. But between the jet blowing up, the pilots being machine-gunned as they fell to earth, and now U.S. weapons being used to undermine the Russian/Syrian “counterterrorist” effort, there’s ample reason to think things will get worse before they get better. I’m just grateful we’ve got Cool Hand Luke in the White House, laying down “red lines” he doesn’t intend to enforce and issuing warnings that Assad must go which he has no means to follow through on, at the helm of this ship at it enters choppy waters.
Our President had a press conference today.
I didn’t see it.
Did he lay out the reasons why it’s so important for us to be fighting in Syria?
Isn’t that his job?
Obama may be ready to do the split internationally that he’s been doing internally inside the US
in the US who the lefts good guys and bad guys?...white Christian verses Islamic, minority, people of color... yada yada yada
so what do we have now in our international crisis?
Europe and the Russians...the original homeland of White Christianity....vs the homeland of Islamic, minoritys, people of color.
Who Obama side with?
we’re talking the guy that sent back Churchill’s bust ....
Who he going to order the US to side with?....
Thes has be the internal rhetoric of the left for years... the US and Europe with the source of all evils in the world...
But now one of their own now runs US so what’s he going to do with an alliance with Europe ...the other half of evil.. the source of original sin...
Wipe out the Turkish allied animals.
“Only the most sub-human combatant would kill an enemy pilot.”
You just described EVERYONE in the region save the Israelis. Killing any and all of them is like slaughtering cattle, only cattle are a bit smarter and a whole lot more valuable.
Shooting men in parachutes might be a war crime. It certainly aint kosher.
it may not be kosher, but it sure is halal
Then the Russian/Assad alliance needs to launch a ground offensive into that area covered by massive air power and monitored by an umbrella of air defense documenting every move, they need to stay on the Syrian side but let everyone know this is being meticulously documented and if the Turks cross over to help their ISIS allies, at least the remnants of humanity may know who started World War III.
In the meantime, you take no prisoners and show no mercy. Wipe everyone there but document their nation of origins, mercilessly take back the area so the Turks will be cut off from their ISIS allies and ISIS will wither without their Turkish supplier.
I would be OK if large areas of the middle east were sterilized.
exactly, I guarantee this is from the white house to have Turkey hide behind NATO while they cover for fairy boys ISIS pals.
Turkey said they are protecting their borders and yet Turkey goes over into Syria all the time and have no problem killing Kurds which the West ignores.
KICK TURKEY OUT OF NATO
If NATO wants to retain any respect they need to kick Turkey out.
To hell with NATO. Let the big dog bite.
They should have been kicked out of NATO that very day.
I'm not sending my kids.
Maybe Obama will send his.
“I would be OK if large areas of the middle east were sterilized.”
Ultimately that’s what has to happen. If these terrorist acts proliferate in non-muslim countries (the Paris attacks are our first evidence of same), the rest of the world isn’t likley to stand by very long and have their lives interrupted by thse sub-human savages. The muzzies have “broken out” of the ME in past centuries, only to be driven back to their sand dune $hit holes. This time though, the available weaponry is a whole lot more serious, so it seems clear to me that the world will end up coming down on them in ways that will seek to irradicate them all.
The globe has turned. Islam is the biggest threat now to world peace (again). Judeo-Christian nations ignore the peril at grave risk.
As more information is coming out about this it would appear that the Russians have been bombing the ethnic-Turkish Syrians and I suppose if my people were being bombed by someone I'd probably not have any qualms about killing their pilots at my first opportunity.
FK Russia and FK turkey. I’m glad the Russians got a bloody nose. Neither are our friends.
It would not surprise me if Russia started shooting down Turkish jets in Syrian airspace. And arming the PKK.
Well the Russians are the only ones truly fighting and killing ISIS. The US is dropping them supplies and weapons, so who is the terrorist supporter here?
In other words, Turkey may have just created a Russian-backed Kurdistan by shooting down the Russian jet. If the Kurds are willing to fight, the Russians might yet give them the nation they’ve been pushing for. A couple of billion dollars a year and state-of-the-art SAM’s in PKK hands would give the Turks endless headaches.
Surely Russia can hit Syria via the black sea while going over Turkish airspace as a nice reminder that there is are violations of air space and then there are VIOLATIONS of airspace. I will not support Turkey in this case or any other. Nato or not
Since Russia supports Assad who is the legitimate leader of Syria, then Assad could give Russia legitimate authority to do exactly as you suggest, shoot down Turkey jets that slip into Syrian airspace. In fact, that seems the most likely first outcome.
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