Posted on 11/10/2015 12:37:23 PM PST by wagglebee
FRANKFORT, KY, November 9, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) - On December 8, Kentucky will have a new governor, and Kim Davis will have a chance to do her job without denying her faith. Governor-elect Matt Bevin has promised that he will change the state's marriage forms, removing the name of the county clerk entirely - the reform Davis had pleaded with state lawmakers to enact before spending five days in jail.
Davis, the clerk of Rowan County in eastern Kentucky, is a born again Christian who believes participating in a same-sex "marriage" would make her guilty of a major sin. Before the Supreme Court's Obergefell v. Hodges decision imposing gay "marriage" on every state in the country, Davis said she petitioned every elected state official in Kentucky to grant her a religious accommodation.
No one replied, she said - including the current Democratic governor, Steve Beshear, and Jack Conway, the Democratic candidate for governor in 2015.
Davis said she would not stop other employees from issuing marriage licenses to same-sex couples, but she wanted her name removed from the form, since it implied her personal consent.
But Gov. Beshear refused to accommodate her, ordering her to violate her sincerely held religious beliefs or lose her job.
U.S. District Judge David Bunning sent Davis to jail for five days for contempt of court.
When Kim Davis was released from jail on September 8, Matt Bevin was one of the people who visited her - along with Mike Huckabee and Ted Cruz.
Last Tuesday, Bevin became the third Republican governor of Kentucky in 50 years. He told Laura Ingraham that he owed his popularity to his principled stand supporting life and religious liberty for people like Kim Davis.
Speaking with reporters last Friday, Bevin said, "One thing I will take care of right away is we will remove the names of the county clerks from the marriage form."
"We will take the names off those forms. We will do that by executive order. We will do it right out of the gate," he added.
Bevin alluded to other politicians who said the forms could not be altered without legislative action. "The argument that that cannot be done is baloney. We've already changed those forms three times for crying out loud," he said.
Davis sent word through her attorney that she was overjoyed at the development.
"Kim Davis and Liberty Counsel applaud Governor-elect Matt Bevin for his leadership in protecting the rights of conscience of all County Clerks," said Mat Staver, the founder of Liberty Counsel, which directs its legal efforts to preserving religious liberty.
"It is refreshing to have someone with the integrity, character, and concern of Matt Bevin leading the Commonwealth of Kentucky. Gov. Steve Beshear could have resolved this marriage license issue a long time ago, but he chose to ignore the plea for help," he said.
"Governor-elect Bevin's impending executive order is a welcome relief for Kim Davis and should be for everyone who cherishes religious freedom," he concluded.
Geez, this is a major doable victory for Kim Davis, and she herself is overjoyed. It is what she, through her lawyers, were asking for, and will now be accomplished, an accomodation. This is what she wants.
And yet, you folks on this thread are still grousing for more, even though more at the moment isn’t achievable legally. And as for Bevin using Executive Order to accomplish this, then if it is in any way illegal, it will end up being adjudicated by enemies of liberty and back in the courts. If Bevin doesn’t use an Executive Order to accomplish this end, then Kim Davis will remain in limbo and subject to further attacks by her enemies via the judicial system. For now an Executive Order will do. Further actions via Legislative measures, can come later.
The enemy, Obama, has been using Executive Orders constantly. Would you want to disarm a future Republican President from doing the same to undo all the damage Obama has done using them? Why do you constantly want to disarm our side while the other side constantly gets away with using Executive Orders. We finally get someone in who is in our side, and you want to stop him from correcting this religious liberty wrong? I don’t understand you guys.
It’s like gun control. The opposition (our enemies) constantly want to disarm the good guys while the bad guys all obtain their guns illegally and will continue to do so. If you don’t learn how to fight fire with fire, we are politically doomed. Sheesh.
She wanted her name removed and she got it.
I really think that the Left and Gays had pushed this issue as far as they could. If they had pressed it further until all Christians were forced into a corner, then there might have been serious consequences. Maybe not right away but later.
Is it a win? Heck no. Is it over yet? Absolutely not.
You’re illustrating the dangers that I warned about throughout this debacle in making this all about Kim Davis and her rights.
This is not primarily about her or her rights. It’s about the duties of those who have taken the oath of office, whether they’re a county clerk, or a governor, or anything else.
The country is going to continue to be destroyed right up until those who represent us, those who take the oath, learn to tell judges who are outside their jurisdiction to go to hell.
“I do not forget the position assumed by some that constitutional questions are to be decided by the Supreme Court, nor do I deny that such decisions must be binding in any case upon the parties to a suit as to the object of that suit, while they are also entitled to very high respect and consideration in all parallel cases by all other departments of the Government...At the same time, the candid citizen must confess that if the policy of the Government upon vital questions affecting the whole people is to be irrevocably fixed by decisions of the Supreme Court, the instant they are made in ordinary litigation between parties in personal actions the people will have ceased to be their own rulers, having to that extent practically resigned their Government into the hands of that eminent tribunal.”
— Abraham Lincoln, First Inaugural Address
“Nothing in the Constitution has given them [the federal judges] a right to decide for the Executive, more than to the Executive to decide for them. . . . The opinion which gives to the judges the right to decide what laws are constitutional and what not, not only for themselves, in their own sphere of action, but for the Legislature and Executive also in their spheres, would make the Judiciary a despotic branch.”
— Thomas Jefferson, letter to Abigail Adams
“You seem . . . to consider the judges as the ultimate arbiters of all constitutional questions; a very dangerous doctrine indeed, and one which would place us under the despotism of an oligarchy. Our judges are as honest as other men, and not more so . . . and their power [is] the more dangerous, as they are in office for life and not responsible, as the other functionaries are, to the elective control. The Constitution has erected no such single tribunal, knowing that to whatever hands confided, with corruptions of time and party, its members would become despots.”
— Letter to William Jarvis, Sept. 28, 1820
Changing the marriage certificates may help Kim Davis legally, but it will do absolutely nothing to address the real rule of law issues that are at stake here.
It’s a cop-out.
That's what I said. It has to go through the legislature because it is a Kentucky LAW that requires the name of the court clerk. It isn't a "regulation" issued by some Department under his control, it's a Law, passed by the Legislature and Signed by a previous Governor.
While they are at it, are they going to remove the part that requires a FEMALE to submit the license application?
It would seem to me that requirement pretty much stops all faggot applications from going anywhere.
I’m sure that some crazy leftist will sue over this.
It’s a first step, and one he can take right away without having to work through the legislature.
flaglady47 makes a logical, practical & necessary point.
We can not tie our hands behind our back when the opposition is fighting us with brass knuckles. We can not be the only side worrying about being right, when Obama and democrats fight dirty. That is a sure way to lose every fight. As Trump says, we don’t win anymore.
That is the proper solution.
Every state should pass that — the female must submit it.
Now, can we require a male signature on it?
Every state should pass that — the female must submit it.
Now, can we require a male signature on it?
Since the court rulings violate the laws of nature and the Constitution, they must still be considered to be null and void, unlawful orders.
“One may well ask: ‘How can you advocate breaking some laws and obeying others?’ The answer lies in the fact that there are two types of laws: just and unjust. I would be the first to advocate obeying just laws. One has not only a legal but a moral responsibility to obey just laws. Conversely, one has a moral responsibility to disobey unjust laws. I would agree with St. Augustine that ‘an unjust law is no law at all.’
Now, what is the difference between the two? How does one determine whether a law is just or unjust? A just law is a man made code that squares with the moral law or the law of God. An unjust law is a code that is out of harmony with the moral law.
...Thus it is that I can urge men to obey the 1954 decision of the Supreme Court, for it is morally right; and I can urge them to disobey segregation ordinances, for they are morally wrong. ...A law is unjust if it is inflicted on a minority that, as a result of being denied the right to vote, had no part in enacting or devising the law.
I hope you are able to see the distinction I am trying to point out. In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law, as would the rabid segregationist. That would lead to anarchy. One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law. Of course, there is nothing new about this kind of civil disobedience. It was evidenced sublimely in the refusal of Shadrach, Meshach and Abednego to obey the laws of Nebuchadnezzar, on the ground that a higher moral law was at stake. It was practiced superbly by the early Christians, who were willing to face hungry lions and the excruciating pain of chopping blocks rather than submit to certain unjust laws of the Roman Empire. To a degree, academic freedom is a reality today because Socrates practiced civil disobedience. In our own nation, the Boston Tea Party represented a massive act of civil disobedience.
We should never forget that everything Adolf Hitler did in Germany was ‘legal’ and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was ‘illegal.’ It was ‘illegal’ to aid and comfort a Jew in Hitler’s Germany. Even so, I am sure that, had I lived in Germany at the time, I would have aided and comforted my Jewish brothers. If today I lived in a Communist country where certain principles dear to the Christian faith are suppressed, I would openly advocate disobeying that country’s antireligious laws.”
— Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Letter from a Birmingham Jail
A Victory for her, and a loss for America and conservatives/Christians because she caved in and complied with the left’s demands before this=-
[[A week ago Bevin was hailed as the new Reagan, and now he’s being called names here. Some of you guys really shouldn’t post very often here.]]
I think people’s disappointment is that the left won again- forced her to cave in, and the then acting gov did nothing to uphold her rights- and conservatism and Christianity took a major beating through it all (while muslims gained victories by not having to deliver booze that is part of their job because of religious objections)
We’re grateful that something is being done- most of us anyways- and thankful he is stepping up to the plate-
Some I think just are frustrated that evil wins so often while good gets pounded over and over again-
It remains to be seen how strongly this gov stands up for the good- so far he’s doing the right thing- more than his predecessor ever did
[[The country is going to continue to be destroyed right up until those who represent us, those who take the oath, learn to tell judges who are outside their jurisdiction to go to hell.]]
that will never happen because too many states are afraid of reprisals bty the govnerment if they oppose thel eft on anything
We as a nation had a chance to tell the president to take his healthcare law and shove it, but we didn’t- We could have gotten enough states to defy this law that the govnerment would have had no choice but to repeal it because they couldn’t enforce it
We let that opportunity slip away- along with every other opportunity to defy lawless rules, regulations and unconstitutional laws and executive orders
We let it slip away when the Supreme court created law- soemthign they are NOT supposed to do- regarding gay marriage- by not standing up as a nation and saying we would not comply because it is an IMMORAL act that should not be rewarded by the government
I’m afraid it’s just not going to happen- The government has gotten too big, too powerful- too lawless for states to stand up against it the way they SHOULD by refusing to comply-
At best we only run lawsuits which almost always fail I n the courts, and then we tuck tail and comply
And a month ago, the Bevin threads were overrun with neo-confederates calling him a "gutless coward" and "RINO traitor" simply because he agreed with removing the Jefferson Davis statue from the state capitol grounds. They also "predicted" that "Bevin just lost the Governor's race". All of this was quickly forgotten once he was elected and proclaimed a Tea Party victory.
The disappointment on this thread is extremely mild in comparison.
Its just hard to get excited about a "symbolic" victory that still forces clerks to issue gay "marriage" licenses as long as the clerk's name isn't on the certificate.
And what you say here cures nothing, and nothing would be done at all. That is what you advocate, total inaction. Well then, think of a better method or way that will work, and think of it now. What’s your cure, sir? What do you think should be done now in Kentucky, and I mean an action that will actually work?
You say your wise pronouncements with no cure at all. Bevin is doing probably the only thing that can be at this moment, an Executive Order. Now you tell me YOUR cure, and one that will work, not some pie in the sky platitudes that accomplish nothing.
“That is the proper solution.”
Excellent idea. Put the onus on this Judge. I like it.
Tell the courts to go to hell and enforce the legitimate marriage laws of the State of Kentucky.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?
“Tell the courts to go to hell and enforce the legitimate marriage laws of the State of Kentucky.
Why is that so hard for you to understand?”
Oh I understand completely, and so do you. Your statement above, as I said about you before, will accomplish nothing. YOU go tell the courts to go to hell, and YOU enforce Kentucky’s marriage law. See how far you get, big mouth, Mr. Tough Guy. You will get nowhere.
You just don’t understand the theory of incrementalism, which is the left’s gospel and often works for them. They never give up, they just go step by step. We must do the same. Step by step, to knock this country back into shape.
Unless you prefer revolution now, and I mean a true revolt, in the streets fighting, against the socialist enemies in our society. It may come to that one day, and I will buy a gun to join it, but that time isn’t yet, unless you want to personally start it. Go to it and see how far you will get in Kentucky. Start your street revolution there, if you dare.
Meanwhile I back Bevin, his taking a step in the right direction. One of many steps that we must take, slowly but surely. Incrementally. Look how far the left has gotten with their incremental tactics. It’s our turn to do the same so we can win; as Trump says, we never win anymore.
Surrendering the laws of nature and nature’s God and our constitutional form of government doesn’t get you anywhere incrementally. You’re badly mistaken.
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