Posted on 08/06/2015 4:20:58 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
Their problem was that they didn’t have the means of dropping any on us. The real problem was that we had no army in any sense in Germany, and they did. It was the deterrent of Soviet belief we had piles of atomic bombs ready to go that had kept them in check. They believed we had piles of them ready to go because they would have had piles of them ready to go if they had been us.
That was not the only time the projection of their attitudes onto others came into play in their decision making.
Stalin as Sauron.
Tolkien, in his marvelous trilogy the Lord of the Rings, wrote that Sauron couldn’t imagine the West not using the Great Ring if they had it. And it never entered his mind that they might seek to destroy it. I was simply out of his reckoning.
Some interesting points that made me look further.
But the Russian version was essentially a Fat Man and had the same problems. Our only carry plane was the B-29. Makes me think they needed a copy of our b-29 to carry a copy of our Fat Man.
Yet the army placed an order for 200 fatmans in nov 1945 so the cold war was on....................
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fat_Man
Due to the limitations of the Mark III Fat Man, a nuclear strike would have been a formidable undertaking in the 1940s. The lead-acid batteries that powered the fuzing system remained charged for only 36 hours, after which they needed to be recharged. To do this meant disassembling the bomb, and recharging took 72 hours. The batteries had to be removed in any case after nine days or they corroded. The plutonium core could not be left in for much longer, because its heat damaged the high explosives. Replacing the core also required the bomb to be completely disassembled and reassembled. This required about 40 to 50 men and took between 56 and 72 hours, depending on the skill of the bomb assembly team, and in June 1948 the Armed Forces Special Weapons Project had only three teams. The only aircraft capable of carrying the bomb were Silverplate B-29s, and the only group equipped with them was the 509th Bombardment Group at Walker Air Force Base in Roswell, New Mexico. They would first have to fly to Sandia Base to collect the bombs, and then to an overseas base from which a strike could be mounted.[54]
“As much of the Manhattan Project data leaked by the spies Klaus Fuchs, Theodore Hall and David Greenglass to the Soviet Union concerned Fat Man, the Soviet Union’s first nuclear weapon, designated “Joe-1” by the United States, was based closely on Fat Man’s design.[55][56] “Joe 1” was detonated on 29 August 1949 as part of Operation “First Lightning”.”
In November 1945, the Army Air Forces asked Los Alamos for 200 Fat Man bombs. At the time there were only two sets of plutonium cores and high explosive assemblies.
Nice catch. Web gem.
This is an interesting list of nuclear weapons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_nuclear_weapons
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_4_nuclear_bomb
The Mark 4 was an emergency 1949 hand made bomb in response to Russia it would seem. Same size as Fatman. Some improvements. 550 made.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_5_nuclear_bomb
Mark 5 (52-63) was smaller. Door in front to insert the fissional able material.
We could have sent the bomb components overseas by heavy cruiser.
It seems that very early on the whole point of atomic/nuclear weapons was “You don’t have to use them, you just have to have them.”
And so it remains today.
Frequently the history for which we can all be most grateful is the history that doesn't happen.
I am by no means an expert on military airplanes, but my impression is that the Korean War forced us to upgrade our fighters, while the Cold War forced us to upgrade our bombers. The AAF was already working on the B-36 in the belief it would be necessary for bombing Japan, but it didn't get off the ground until '46, and the later B-47s were the basis of SAC in the 1950s, when we (over?)built our strategic bombing arsenal on the incorrect assumption that the Soviets were building a similar strategic bomber. The Soviets knew, like the Japanese in 1941 knew, that the only way we could be stopped in an all-out war would be to be crippled on a first strike. The Japanese thought they could cripple us, but they were wrong. The Soviets knew that couldn't cripple us, so their tactic was psyops, convincing us that the only way to peace was to dismantle our own nuclear shield--at which point they would be able to cripple us. We almost fell for it a few times, but Reagan turned the tables on the Soviets and upped the ante so much that they collapsed under the economic strain.
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/20th_century/mp07.asp
Hiroshima
Hiroshima was the primary target of the first atomic bomb mission. The mission went smoothly in every respect. The weather was good, and the crew and equipment functioned perfectly. In every detail, the attack was carried out exactly as planned, and the bomb performed exactly as expected.
The bomb exploded over Hiroshima at 8:15 on the morning of August 6, 1945. About an hour previously, the Japanese early warning radar net had detected the approach of some American aircraft headed for the southern part of Japan. The alert had been given and radio broadcasting stopped in many cities, among them Hiroshima. The planes approached the coast at a very high altitude. At nearly 8:00 A.M., the radar operator in Hiroshima determined that the number of planes coming in was very small - probably not more than three - and the air raid alert was lifted. The normal radio broadcast warning was given to the people that it might be advisable to go to shelter if B-29’s were actually sighted, but no raid was expected beyond some sort of reconnaissance. At 8:15 A.M., the bomb exploded with a blinding flash in the sky, and a great rush of air and a loud rumble of noise extended for many miles around the city; the first blast was soon followed by the sounds of falling buildings and of growing fires, and a great cloud of dust and smoke began to cast a pall of darkness over the city.
At 8:16 A.M., the Tokyo control operator of the Japanese Broadcasting Corporation noticed that the Hiroshima station had gone off the air. He tried to use another telephone line to reestablish his program, but it too had failed. About twenty minutes later the Tokyo railroad telegraph center realized that the main line telegraph had stopped working just north of Hiroshima. From some small railway stops within ten miles of the city there came unofficial and confused reports of a terrible explosion in Hiroshima. All these reports were transmitted to the Headquarters of the Japanese General Staff.
Military headquarters repeatedly tried to call the Army Control Station in Hiroshima. The complete silence from that city puzzled the men at Headquarters; they knew that no large enemy raid could have occurred, and they knew that no sizeable store of explosives was in Hiroshima at that time. A young officer of the Japanese General Staff was instructed to fly immediately to Hiroshima, to land, survey the damage, and return to Tokyo with reliable information for the staff. It was generally felt at Headquarters that nothing serious had taken place, that it was all a terrible rumor starting from a few sparks of truth.
The staff officer went to the airport and took off for the southwest. After flying for about three hours, while still nearly 100 miles from Hiroshima, he and his pilot saw a great cloud of smoke from the bomb. In the bright afternoon, the remains of Hiroshima were burning.
Their plane soon reached the city, around which they circled in disbelief. A great scar on the land, still burning, and covered by a heavy cloud of smoke, was all that was left of a great city. They landed south of the city, and the staff officer immediately began to organize relief measures, after reporting to Tokyo.
Tokyo’s first knowledge of what had really caused the disaster came from the White House public announcement in Washington sixteen hours after Hiroshima had been hit by the atomic bomb.
We had been sending 3 plane sections for months to Japan to do.....nothing. It lulled the Japanese into a false sense of security when it came to 3 plane formations.
Yep. It worked.
From this book excerpt and the audio clips, it would seem that the concept of an atomic bomb was already well established in the public consciousness. I always thought it was a big surprise.
I am not sure what “this book” you are referring to but did find the following which is very interesting. They were aware of radium experiments
It was the radium age of science fiction. Flask Gordon. I like the comparison to Star Trek Warp Drive which is common public knowledge today.
Even before Hiroshima, people knew the atomic bomb
http://publictabs.com/tabs/even-before-hiroshima-people-knew-the-atomic-bomb/
A historical Gallup poll survey.
As you may know, the United States dropped atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki in August 1945 near the end of World War II. Looking back, would you say you approve or disapprove of using the atomic bomb on Japanese cities in 1945?
http://www.gallup.com/poll/17677/Majority-Supports-Use-Atomic-Bomb-Japan-WWII.aspx
And HG Wells used the word atomic bomb in this 1914 book.
\http://www.gutenberg.org/files/1059/1059-h/1059-h.htm
Post number 4 was from “John Toland, The Rising Sun: The Decline and Fall of the Japanese Empire, 1936-1945”.
Interesting link. Thanks.
My Dad had recently returned from Europe and was on a train heading to the west coast when the Hiroshima A-bomb was announced. He got off at Fort Riley, and a couple of weeks later was cut loose and sent home. Yes, I think it was a good idea.
Most interesting to note that at the time, in August 1945, 85% approved, only 10% disapproved.
Today, in round numbers, about 60% yes, 40% no.
You know, people sometimes use the term "survivors' guilt" in referring to, for example, Holocaust survivors brutalized by their experience and left feeling depressed & guilty that they survived, while so many others died.
But I wonder if Americans in general don't suffer from something similar, we might call it "victors' guilt"?
Or have we simply been propagandized to the point where nearly half of us can't think straight any more?
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