Posted on 07/15/2015 2:42:04 PM PDT by Pharmboy
‘Bottleneck’ dates back 600 to 800 years, genome analysis shows; researcher says among population ‘everyone is a 30th cousin.
Illustrative photo of Ashkenazi Jews, taken from Nurit Ben Sheetri's 'The Redheads' exhibit at Dizengoff Center (courtesy Nurit Ben Sheetrit)
A new study concludes that all Ashkenazi Jews can trace their ancestry to a “bottleneck” of just 350 individuals, dating back to between 600 and 800 years ago.
The study, published in the Nature Communications journal Tuesday, was authored by Shai Carmi, a computer science professor at Columbia University, and more than 20 medical researchers from Yale, Columbia, Yeshiva University’s Albert Einstein College of Medicine, Memorial Sloan-Kettering Cancer Center, Hebrew University of Jerusalem and other institutions.
Researchers analyzed the genomes of 128 Ashkenazi Jews and compared them to those of non-Jewish Europeans in order to determine which genetic markers are unique to Ashkenazi Jews. They found that the Ashkenazi Jews’ genetic similarities were so acute that one of the study’s researchers, Columbia professor Itsik Pe’er, told the Live Science website that among Ashkenazi Jews, “everyone is a 30th cousin.”
The findings will enable researchers to catalog nearly all of the genetic variations from the founding population, the study’s authors said. Such thorough genetic cataloging could help clinicians interpret individual genetic mutations, improve disease mapping and provide insight into the histories of Middle Eastern and European populations, the study said.
(Excerpt) Read more at timesofisrael.com ...
More likely the plague, and the follow-on persecutions.
It’s a puzzle.
“No, James wrote his letter to the 12 tribes scattered abroad.”
Yes, some were scattered abroad, but many returned with Judah from the captivity, the Bible tells us that (1 Chr. 9:1-3). Actually, many left the Northern Kingdom and mixed with Judah even before the Assyrian captivity (2 Chr. 11:13-14), (2 Chr. 15:8-9).
Well, there is a famous genetic marker, the “Cohen” sequence, that is used to identify people and groups around the world who descend from Israel, and that sequence actually comes from the tribe of Levi. The majority of the surviving Jews probably do descend mainly from Judah, but there were survivors from all 12 tribes that formed the population we identify as “Jewish” today.
Sure, but not in certain circumstances. For example, if you want to talk about Abraham or Isaac, you can’t technically call them “Israel” or “Jewish” because those terms postdate them. So that is when we need to search around for other terms, like “Hebrew” that are more accurate.
Jews were blamed for the plague due to their apparent lack of it, so that probably isn’t it.
In Genesis, when Jacob Israel was nearing his death, he prophesied to all his sons concerning the last days. Tell me where, inside the country commonly called Israel today, is Manasseh being a "great nation", Ephraim being a "company of nations" and Zebulon being a "haven for ships", not to mention the other eight besides Judah being the scepter good fig in the current nation of Israel. Amazing if you can fit them all in that tiny country.
Also in Revelation, there would be 200,000,000 of Gog and Magog invading "Israel" for their cattle and booty. Why would 200,000,000 troops try to take booty from a nation of 4 million?
But doesn’t Hebrew post date Abraham? When were the Jews first referred to as Hebrews? One theory is that the name comes from Habiru, a group of Canaanite traveling artisans and soldiers that came out of Egypt with the Jews.
First, keep in mind that Ashkenazis and Sefardis shared ancestors. The Ashkenaz had a bottleneck, but had plenty of Jewish relatives in other branches of the family.
Also, I have heard from two traditional Jewish teachers, from different learning traditions, that, over the centuries, millions of Jews were killed in the Christian world before the advent of Nazis. This would seem at least somewhat consistent with some estimates of the percent of Jews in the pre-Christian Roman Empire.
“Tell me where, inside the country commonly called Israel today...”
Only if you tell me first, in my comments, where I made any claims that modern day Jewish people have to fulfill all the prophecies made by Jacob on his death bed for the various tribes (or the Gog/Magog prophecies that won’t even be fulfilled until after Christ returns).
“When were the Jews first referred to as Hebrews?”
Well, see this is what I’m talking about when I say the term is tricky. The Jews didn’t exist when the term Hebrews first came into use. That term predates them. The father of the “first Jew” was a Hebrew, not a Jew.
As for the “hapiru”/”habiru” thing, that is most likely just an Egyptian transliteration of the very same word, and not the origin of the word. The word itself is a semetic word, not an Egyptian one. Calling them “canaanites” is also misleading, because the land had been given to Abraham and his Hebrew tribesmen before the captivity, and the unrelated Canaanites did not come to occupy it until later. So this people coming into Egypt from “Canaan” at the beginning of the captivity were not “canaanites”, but Hebrews.
The “hapirus” left Egypt with the Jews because they were kinsmen, because the Jews were just one family that was part of the larger Hebrew tribe at the time the captivity began.
Post 83, "some were scattered", and "many returned". That's deceptive when actually most were scattered and a only few returned.
...(or the Gog/Magog prophecies that won’t even be fulfilled until after Christ returns).
So Gog and Magog will gather 200,000,000 troops for battle and cross the Euphrates with Christ sitting on the throne in Jerusalem? And those in Judea will have to flee to the mountains with Christ sitting right there with them?
Well, you didn’t answer my question, so I’m not answering yours.
We have differences of opinion re history from 50 years ago, so 3,500 years ago is pretty, pretty, pretty hard.
I think I was very clear in answering you. It was deceptive of you to imply that all of Israel is of the tribe of Judah.
I never said that or implied it.
Y chromosomes of Ashkenazi Jews (only paternally inherited) are very similar to those of Arabs (especially Palestinians/Druze), while their mitochondrial DNA (maternally inherited) clusters with southern Europeans. One explanation for this is male Jewish merchants in Europe taking non-Jewish wives who then converted to Judaism.
It would certainly explain why some Jews are very European-looking while others look like Arabs.
“they would have suffered more from plagues than the country folk.”
Yeah, but 350? That’s a small gene pool.
Don’t forget the destruction of Jerusalem by the Romans. The only tribe left would have been Judah and parts of Manasseh. If they died or were enslaved in the numbers estimated then there would have been very few pure bloodlines left.
Intelligence and wisdom are two different attributes.
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