Ben Carson: Freddie Gray's Injury 'Almost Impossible to Acquire by Simply Rolling Around in a Van'

Christian Post ^ | 05/05/2015 | Leonardo Blair

[SeekAndFind]

Renowned neurosurgeon and potential 2016 GOP presidential candidate Ben Carson, said Friday that the injury suffered by 25-year-old Freddie Gray who died on April 19 after being gravely injured while in the custody of Baltimore police officers "would be almost impossible to acquire…by simply rolling around in a van."

In an announcement highlighting criminal charges against six Baltimore police officers Friday, the city's newly elected State's Attorney Marilyn Mosby said Gray suffered a spinal injury while being transported in a police van and charged that the failure of the police to put a seatbelt on him was a crucial factor in how he was injured.

"Mr. Gray suffered a severe and critical neck injury as a result of being handcuffed, shackled by his feet and unrestrained inside the B.P.D. wagon," said Mosby.

An earlier report in The Washington Post citing a police document had suggested that Gray may have been intentionally trying to hurt himself while being transported in the police van.

Carson, who served as head of pediatric neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins Hospital in Baltimore before retiring in 2013, said however that it is quite unlikely that Gray's injury was self-inflicted.

"The type of injury incurred by Mr. Freddie Gray at the base of the cervical spine with significant damage to the spinal cord requires a great deal of direct pressure to that area. It would be almost impossible to acquire such an injury by simply rolling around in a van, regardless of how violently," said Carson in a post to his Facebook page. "Therefore, there is a high likelihood that direct trauma occurred."

[nclaurel]

Not stating any opinion on the injury or how it occurred myself nor am I trying to contain free speech, but....we have had someone in the WH who has interjected himself in far too many law enforcement issue. Each time it has only caused additional strife and racial turmoil. I hope that whoever is elected President keeps his personal opinions out of things that do not fall under the job of President.

[bunkerhill7]

Ben Carson appears never to have ridden handcuffed in a paddywagon. Unless the wagon is fully loaded with prisoners, sitting sideways, there is no way to stop yourself from sliding around or off that shiny stainless steel bench seat unless someone is next to you. If you slide off, you have no balance whatsoever. You are surrounded by nothing but sharp corners of cold hard steel.
If you have a back problem, you are SOL>

[skeeter]

You are right, but I went back and read the entire article.

And the extent of Carson's speculation is worse than I thought. He actually calls for guilty party/parties to come forward and admit culpability.

[peeps36]

I agree that he couldn’t get those injuries by rolling around but I still think he could have inflicted them on himself. If he stood up and used the momentum of the van pulling away from a stop sign, he could have slammed into the steel door with a lot of force. It’s possible that he injured himself too good.

[MinuteGal]

I still maintain, after repeatedly viewing and analyzing the clip of the van-entrance sequence, that there is a strong probability that the deceased was injured BEFORE entering the van....but I'm the only one on FR who has several times posted this opinion since the gitgo.

In fact, I get slammed every time I dare post my theory. It's getting to be kinda fun....as I don't know any more about what happened than anyone else on this board, lol.

Leni

[bolobaby]

Just to be devil’s advocate: would it be possible for Freddy to have had the door slammed ON him? That is, he was told to sit down, but decided to give officers lip and was leaning out the door, when the officers forcibly slammed the door shut of his head, causing an injury?

There really are a number of possibilities.

My best guess, though, is that he was standing up and the van accelerated, causing him to fall towards the door and smash his head, hurting his neck.

[skeeter]

If people die falling down stairs and off of step ladders it does not seem behind the realm of possibility that a guy could break his neck in the manner you describe.

[angry elephant]

The fact that Dr. Carson sees the need to even comment at this point shows he is not ready for prime time. “

You are right on that. Unfortunately rampant speculation in these case has been common as of late. Obummer started it with his need to comment on the Trayvon incident. It only causes anger and unrest for everyone with a microphone to insert foot into mouth.

[Carry me back]

He was a life long criminal. He ‘s dead now.

[Wooly]

You people need to realize that not all police are somehow good guys. Freddie Gray was a petty criminal, but we know now that the police stopping him was a harassment stop.
The spinal fracture he received is similar to the injury that killed Dale Earnhardt Sr except lower on the spine and therefore took longer to kill him. If Freddy Gray hit his head in the van he would have had cuts and other injuries to his face.
I personally think that this was caused by a choke hold that was administered with upward and backward pressure on the neck while the officer was putting pressure on his back with his body.
Wake up the Democrat/Communist party uses the police to intimidate, harass and collect money from people as a way to strike fear.

[married21]

You are so right. Thank you.

[jwalsh07]

Well if any candidate on either side is qualified to speculate on the injury it is certainly Carson.

[bolobaby]

Just for fun, let’s respond to your post...

1. It’s never a good idea to start any argument with “You people.” Automatic argument loser because you are not discussing the merits of what was said, but you are arguing against the category you’ve decided to lump me into. Which leads to #2...

2. You’ve obviously decided to lump me into some kind of category that assumes police are good guys. You completely fail to recognize that the “devil’s advocate” portion of my post could attribute malice and/or responsibility to the police when it comes to Freddy’s injury.

3. I then go on to say there are a variety of possibilities. That would include police applying excess pressure to his back. It could also include that Freddy fell in such a way as to hyper-extend his lower back in an inverse fashion, thereby causing the injury. Any of these are possibilities.

4. You indirectly state Freddy had no injuries on on his face. You’ve read the complete medical examiner’s report then?

5. You also state that Freddy was a “harassment stop” as if that was proven. I have heard a conflicting report - that Freddy saw the police and ran, which, I’ve also heard that under the law in Maryland is enough for the police to pursue and detain in order to determine if there is cause to arrest. I don’t know if this is true, so I’ll just stash that away into my “realm of possibilities.”

6. While I’m stashing things into my “realm of possibilities,” I think I’ll put the “presumed innocent until proven guilt” possibility in my stash. That’s probably the most important thing to start with.

7. Since I don’t have all the facts - and have learned from Brown, Martin, Brawley, et al - I think I’ll wait until lots of facts are actually reviewed by the legal system and wait and see what happens.

8. That does not prevent me from speculating on the possibilities - which I did - but I’m also not going to join any lynch mob that insists the police are mostly bad guys who “intimidate, harass, and collect money from people.” Even if I decided the most likely possibility was Freddy was beaten, I’d *still wait* to see what the legal system produced. (See “presumption of innocence” point above.)

9. Finally, as I have stated many times on FreeRepublic, as a general rule, I do believe police tactics have become more draconian. No knock raids, para-militarization, extra-legal presumption of authority, and “no risk shoot if you *feel* threatened at all” policies have not done much good for cops in general. Many of these tactics, though, are also born from an increasingly lawless segment of society who does not respond to “civilized” policing. So, maybe we should address that problem, too.

[MrEdd]

Since photos of the van in question have been posted with some of the news stories, I am willing to assert outright that not having shoulder restraints installed constitutes negligence in and of itself.

It is a hard walled narrow cell on wheels.

You would have to be a real idiot not to anticipate problems from that at some point with only lap belts - even without handcuffs.

[Joe 6-pack]

"Was he present at the autopsy? Has he been supplied with the autopsy report? What, then, is the basis for his speculation?"

I do not know. I do however, think that it's reasonable to, "speculate," that the former head of neurosurgery at Johns Hopkins probably has some associates and contacts in the Baltimore medical community who would have some insider knowledge. In fact, I believe that to think otherwise is probably the less reasonable speculation.

[conservativejoy]

I will be glad when we get to hear the officers’ side of the story.

I also would be willing to bet the union has a challenge in on that seatbelt order as a safety issue to the officers. When it is all said and done, I bet the union gets a ruling that it will be at the officer’s discretion. I’ve seen those kinds of issues go to arbitrators before and the union always wins.

[tanknetter]

Agreed.

One of the big points thats going to come up with this is going to be police policy and capabilities vs the culpability of officers who had to work with what they had.

For instance, there WAS a policy that prisoners in vans had to be buckled in. That policy was only three days old, and hadn’t been fully briefed to the force. Should officers be held accountable for not enforcing a policy if they had no knowlege of it? Again, for instance ...

[for-q-clinton]

Who wants to be a cop today? Other than thugs and bullies?

I’d say those who WANT to help and do good would welcome the extra evidence to back up their claims. Unless you’re suggesting all cops do need to lie and don’t want to be called out for it via a body cam.

Today they have people telling stories and they are getting arrested for it (see Baltimore). If they had body cams then the evidence would clearly show they did nothing wrong (if they are telling the truth). If they are lying...well they should be in jail then.

[Kazan]

I’d say those who WANT to help and do good would welcome the extra evidence to back up their claims.

All that will do is give the ACLU and liberals more videos to take out-of-context, file lawsuits and hinder police doing their jobs.

Blacks and liberals see what they want to see when it comes to eyewitness and video evidence. That was proven yesterday on Fox News when some black woman claimed unarmed "boy" was shot by police. This despite the fact, the "boy" dropped a gun on the sidewalk.

It would turn law enforcement into endless circus.

And, that is why Obama favors the idea.

[DoodleDawg]

Unless the wagon is fully loaded with prisoners, sitting sideways, there is no way to stop yourself from sliding around or off that shiny stainless steel bench seat unless someone is next to you. If you slide off, you have no balance whatsoever. You are surrounded by nothing but sharp corners of cold hard steel. If you have a back problem, you are SOL>

This isn't the old style paddywagon. This was a panel van divided into individual compartments. From TV it lookes like you can sit down in there and not much else.