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Assisted Suicide's Grave Implications
Townhall.com ^ | April 18, 2015 | Kathryn Lopez

Posted on 04/18/2015 6:30:52 AM PDT by Kaslin

"It's scary and it knocks the breath out of you."

Maggie Karner is not unrealistic or "romantic" about death and dying. And she should know.

"It takes a long time to come to terms with a disease -- especially a terminal illness. And then you start thinking; 'OK, this is the new me. This is the new normal. And I can still appreciate every moment.'"

Earlier this spring, when I co-hosted a National Review Institute panel on assisted suicide with Ryan T. Anderson of the Heritage Foundation, we began it with a video of Karner. No speech is as compelling as her testimony.

Karner is dying. Last year, she was diagnosed with brain cancer. After chemotherapy and radiation, the cancer cells are growing again. Karner has seen tragedy before. In the video from the Patients Rights Action Fund, Karner talks about her father, who suffered an injury to his spine.

His accident was devastating. He became quadriplegic, after leading a very active life. Karner's family wondered how he was "going to exist without the use of his arms and legs."

But "he settled in very gracefully," Karner says. And the family greatly benefited from watching his struggle.

"We learned a lot. It was a gift that our Dad gave to us." He showed her that life doesn't have value because of what we can do. "I saw with my two eyes, what joy can still be found in just valuing every moment. It doesn't mean it's going to be great. It doesn't mean it is going to be romantic. But there are moments that need to be cherished.

"He left us a legacy with the time that he gave us," Karner explains on the video. "He could have checked out right away and said 'I'm done with this.'" Instead, "My dad showed me not just how to live and how to do stuff and how to be productive. He showed me how to die with grace and dignity."

Six in 10 Americans do not support assisted suicide, according to a new Marist poll commissioned by the Knights of Columbus, and a large majority -- including supporters -- has deep concerns about the effect it will have on the practice of medicine. This is despite well-funded campaigns that insist that assisted suicide should be a free choice and is a matter of "mercy" and "dignity."

But physician-assisted suicide is based on the lie that some lives are unworthy to be lived. And that notion has grave implications for health care in America.

"A commitment to never participate in assisted suicide is essential for the possibility of doctors continuing to care well for patients who are dying," one of our panelists, Farr Curlin, a professor at Duke University School of Medicine, argues.

"The commitment to not kill our patients or help them kill themselves is an essential guard against the temptation to get rid of a patient's suffering by getting rid of the patient."

The Marist poll shows that very few people consider legalizing physician-assisted suicide a priority. So why is it being considered in almost 20 states this year?

A lot of the media coverage of assisted suicide has profiled beautiful young women, points out Sr. Constance Veit of the religious group Little Sisters of the Poor. But it's the people her organization serves in over 30 nations who are most affected by assisted suicide's implications -- the elderly. She tells of family reconciliations that have happened during final days, with "the room of a dying person almost (becoming) the spiritual center of our house at that point."

What legacy will we leave here? Assisting the suicide of medicine or cherishing life, especially the lives of the most weak and vulnerable?


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial
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To: Mrs. Don-o
I agree with you fully. It's a precedent that we don't need. Legal assisted suicide does not need a foot in the door in this nation. It will put at risk the most vulnerable patients. Many an Insurer would also likely welcome this as law. I know of no doctors however who would welcome nor endorse such acts. As you say stopping aggressive treatment at end of life where outcome won't change is one thing. Any doctor can and will discuss that aspect as well as honor their patients wishes in that regard. That is part of their job.

Assisted Suicide is a very different matter though and opens a Pandora's Box to genocide upon those least able to defend themselves from it.

21 posted on 04/19/2015 7:23:20 AM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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Comment #22 Removed by Moderator

To: Mrs. Don-o
This business of getting your friends involved seems to show a real lack of consideration. You'd be opening them up for homicide investigation ---- because if the authorities don't investigate freelance "assisted suicides" as homicides, they're opening up bogus set-up "suicides" as a foolproof way to murder people. No socially responsible, liberty-loving person wants that.

I never wrote about that.

You play the straw man argument as well as a progressive. Look it up.

I gave you an excuse for what you wrote prior; you blew it.

YOU are the one engaging in personal attacks via straw man arguments. The 'wine' comment was a figure of speech; there is no apology for 'the way it is'.

23 posted on 04/19/2015 7:55:44 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: logi_cal869
"There is NO argument that can remove my right and, thus, the need exists for a legal alternative for my friends and/or family to carry out my wishes."

"Friends and/or family". Remember writing that?

24 posted on 04/19/2015 8:04:46 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Do it yourself.)
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To: Impy
Few things are more selfish than asking someone to help you commit suicide

... especially if that someone is a doctor, sworn by oath to "first do no harm".

25 posted on 04/19/2015 8:06:46 AM PDT by glennaro
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To: Slings and Arrows

Why, thank you!


26 posted on 04/19/2015 8:08:32 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (Somebody thought this out.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Suggesting that I would have my friends & family do it is a convenient straw man argument.

The logical reasoning to my comment is that it is ‘not legal’ for my family to carry out my wishes by having it performed, not ‘doing the deed’ themselves which is, of course, illegal.

‘Nice try’ would be a knee=jerk response to your comment, but it wasn’t ‘nice’, was it? (that was ‘rhetorical’; you might look that up, too)


27 posted on 04/19/2015 8:16:18 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: logi_cal869
"There is NO argument that can remove my right and, thus, the need exists for a legal alternative for my friends and/or family to carry out my wishes." Have you disavowed this statement? Or would you prefer to deny you wrote it?
28 posted on 04/19/2015 8:32:05 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (So to speak.)
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To: logi_cal869
The logical reasoning to my comment is that it is ‘not legal’ for my family to carry out my wishes by having it performed, not ‘doing the deed’ themselves which is, of course, illegal.

Have you been in a position where you had to make the choice for ending aggressive treatment for a dying loved one even following "Their" wishes which brought death as the result? That is not an easy thing to do and even that afterwards takes time to come too terms with when they pass.

Why involve spouse, adult children, Dr Whoever, etc in an act of suicide which can be done by ones self and not involve others? Is it the need of legitimizing or rationalizing in the patients mind the needs? The validation of "Ah" it is legal so it's obviously morally OK?

From the last week in February to third week in March I faced two gut wrenching decisions I had to make for two very beloved to me "end of life" situations. One I was medical POA for which was my sister {only sibling} the other was my wife who finally had the chance to vocally express to me and our doctors her choice in treatment. Medical science had done all they could do except for possibly a life on a Ventilator two states away that she likely would not have survived the transport.

I didn't want that burden placed on our daughters so I knowing her wishes decided. It's not as cut and dry as you would like to believe it is as it impacts the family as a whole and decisions have to be lived with even if "You" make them. It may be your wishes but it may violate or later impact "their" conscience. Is that worth it? Suicide almost always leaves a mental scar upon loved ones. End of life decisions within the accepted moral boundaries are enough for the typical person to deal with.

I had a neighbor end his life. He chose a shotgun after trying several deliberate car wrecks first. His wife found him. I had an uncle who sent my aunt to the drugstore for his cancer meds and he took out a firearm she thought she had hidden from him. Both men were terminal. One suffered from strokes and depression and the other the last one was just a self centered man bent on his way or else. Over two decades both families still "deal" with their choices. Anyone can end their life. It doesn't take that much brain power.

Now, what right does anyone have to inflict the emotional pain of suicide upon others whether it is done peacefully or otherwise? I can understand mental illness being the cause the rest? No.

29 posted on 04/19/2015 8:46:56 AM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: Mrs. Don-o
Read my last comment again slowly. Take a breath and repeat.

Comprehension is conjunctive to reading...

Unless, of course, your only intent is to double-down on your straw man argument seeking to elicit a reaction.

There is no saving face to your horrible mischaracterization of my words other than to 'just walk away'...which you may choose to do at any time...save for an apology

30 posted on 04/19/2015 8:50:32 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: cva66snipe
Why involve spouse, adult children, Dr Whoever, etc in an act of suicide which can be done by ones self and not involve others?

You, too, need to invoke comprehension. You are engaging in the straw man argument as well.

Insofar as your words quoted above, I presume you have no Power of Attorney or Living Will. That or you are suggesting that it is the STATE's responsibility to choose how you end your own suffering when you are incapable, which is wrong on so may counts I will not engage...

31 posted on 04/19/2015 9:00:03 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: logi_cal869
LOL. All I did was quote what you said.

Whatever you make of it, it's on your plate, not mine.

32 posted on 04/19/2015 9:13:56 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o (So to speak.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
All I did was quote what you said.

Yes, that is easy, isn't it.../s

33 posted on 04/19/2015 9:29:48 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: logi_cal869
In my state medically if no living will is made and the patient can't express their wishes the family has legal say in treatment starting with the spouse then from there the oldest adult child then the persons parent if living or a sibling.

My sister for over a decade mentally was incapable to make such a document. Strokes and Dementia over the years took it's toll. She was 62. My wife of 29 years was an incomplete quadriplegic I married over 29 years ago after the fact. I was her husband first, then her caregiver, then her advocate. After 29 years I knew her wishes. A very strong strain of Cold Virus she had contracted developed into Bacterial Pneumonia. She had COPD caused by Quadriplegia complications, Asthma, and mild Emphysema. The doctors did all they could do. It was her time. She was 64.

When she took a turn for the worse she was rushed to ICU. They were running 6 Liters of O2 on a mask waiting for the doctor to come in and run a bronchial tube for the Ventilator. She was pulling the mask off and saying "I'm tired please let me go" and this went on for a couple of hours. The next day she had no recollection of it and continued the good fight for her life as well as she could do.

The Ventilator was hooked up and after three days the doctors told me that she could not survive off the Ventilator meaning institution and that meant long term care if she made it that far. Long term Ventilator dependent care is almost non existent and only a few facilities do it. The nearest was two states away. Each scope they did turned up more infection and fluid on the lung her contorted body was blocking. They took her off the machine and pulled the bronchial tube to see if she could breath without it for long periods of time. That was when she told me and the doctors her wishes based on that situation and all the information we had to go on.

A few days later they did a Trach and sent her home on Home Hospice. Within 24 hours of coming home almost to the hour GOD made His call and took her home. One of the hardest things I've done in my life was having DNR placed on her record. I knew that was what she wanted. She had been a CNA before becoming a quad, we both are Christians, and understand the last breath here is the first breath with The Lord.

Now allow me to present the suicide advocates "CHOICE" push. According to what is being pushed 29 years ago she could have decided that hey life as a Quad is not for me and in a depressed state had someone help end her life. She suffered from Clinical Depression BTW and PTSD.

Her 29 years as a quadriplegic changed many lives for the better especially mine. I was the most unlikely caregiver ever and that was what my family said. She got to see her daughters grow up and marry. and the grandchildren got to see their and know their grandmother and one is wanting to be an Orthopedic Surgeon.

GOD never promised an adversity free life nor an easy death. The ones close to Jesus His chosen Disciples all but one suffered violent deaths. One likely died of old age in exile.

You need to go back and read your post on this thread. Who is it you seemed to be most concerned about? Who's wishes?

34 posted on 04/19/2015 9:31:55 AM PDT by cva66snipe ((Two Choices left for U.S. One Nation Under GOD or One Nation Under Judgment? Which one say ye?))
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To: cva66snipe
One of the hardest things I've done in my life was having DNR placed on her record. I knew that was what she wanted

I am not the one with the conflict.

35 posted on 04/19/2015 9:47:56 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

You doubled-down on your comment by FReepmailing me the same, denying it was a straw man argument.

ROFLMAO

Your comments are the epitome of the definition. Almost...desperate.

“B-bye, now.”


36 posted on 04/19/2015 9:58:52 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: logi_cal869

The only reasonable solution for you is to act autonomously before there is any chance of being unable to do so.


37 posted on 04/19/2015 10:10:30 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass
The only reasonable solution for you is to act autonomously before there is any chance of being unable to do so.

Still, there are legal repercussions. And it is not just a problem for me. I will be faced with decisions relating to one or both of my parents in the coming years and millions of other boomers will end up keeping this subject alive.

I did not take lightly the decision to engage in this thread. I fully expected to have a target on my back and end up being at the subject of a dog pile.

Thanks for not piling on.

38 posted on 04/19/2015 10:18:45 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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To: logi_cal869

I’m not sure you understand what I wrote...


39 posted on 04/19/2015 10:20:44 AM PDT by Trailerpark Badass (There should be a whole lot more going on than throwing bleach, said one woman.)
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To: Trailerpark Badass

Unless you’re being intentionally-vague or attempting a clever but poorly-conceived rip, my read of your comment is ‘acting while one still can’. IOW, ‘suicide’. And, as I wrote, still with legal implications, as life insurance does not pay out on suicide, among other concerns...including how to acquire the means of performing the act. Also including that people forced into such desperate situations do not always conclude in a rational manner. Leaving an unimaginable scene in the wake of such a decision for family to find is horribly selfish from one POV, an act of desperation from another.

I chose to engage discussion of options to desperate choices or choices left only to the State regarding a person’s right to both their life...AND death.

Many here are incapable, as demonstrated. Ironic in some ways, grossly hypocritical in others.


40 posted on 04/19/2015 10:41:35 AM PDT by logi_cal869 (-cynicus-)
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