Help! Can voter initiatives be used to call a Convention of the States for proposing amendments?

Self | Nov 20, 2014 | Nateman

[Nateman]

Does anyone know if an Arizona senator has to live in the district he represents? (You know where this is going, what's it going to take to primary this guy?)

[Red Badger]

Article V

The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.

[Nateman]

...on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states...

That is where I need someone who knows the law. If the people of Arizona passed an Initiative that said "This bill has the same effect as if the legislature voted for it", would it have the same effect?

[Lurking Libertarian]

on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states,

There's the answer.

[Red Badger]

I think not, because the Constitution explicitly says ‘legislatures’......................

[Blood of Tyrants]

Not the same.

[Red Badger]

About the best you could do with an initiative is word it so that the passing of the initiative would force the legislature of your state to vote up or down on a convention application.....................

[Amendment10]

"It was a matter of them not paying attention. They didn’t catch exactly what was said."

I can’t believe I am seeing that. They probably heard it and all need to be recalled for saying otherwise.

Regarding voter initiatives and Article V, any port in a storm.

[Hostage]

Application is sent to the National Archives and then communicated to Congress. I don’t believe the National Archives would pass on a state referendum calling for an Article V. It has no standing.

Certainly though, a clear majority of Arizonans voting in a referendum for their state lawmakers to make application for Article V should have strong influence on what those lawmakers choose to do.

[conservatism_IS_compassion]

I would think that if you have “initiative” in Arizona, you also have Recall. And that would seem to answer to the purpose. In the midst of an emergency it wouldn’t seem likely that any other approach would have effect in good time.

[C210N]

no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate

So, basically the 17th was the State's consent to no longer have any representation in the US Senate. Good grief. What they hell were they thinking way back then.

[Nateman]

I’ll agree that initiatives do not do EXACTLY what is called for but if the people vote for it, it most definitely reflects the will of the people. That is definitely in keeping with the spirit of the law. Not to mention offices that use to be picked by representatives already go to direct vote. That is certainly a precedent is it not? Article V was written PRECISELY to by-pass the tyranny of a out of control Federal Government. Can’t one say that the spirit of Article V would allow the people a way to bypass tyranny in their own state?

[yefragetuwrabrumuy]

AZ district 12 is Gilbert and Queen Creek.

[Nateman]

Recall is an EXCELLENT idea! It actually happened here in Arizona not to long ago with State Senator Russell Pearce.

[Red Badger]

PROGRESSIVES................

[Nateman]

About the best you could do with an initiative is word it so that the passing of the initiative would force the legislature of your state to vote up or down on a convention application.....................

In some states that is essentially the only thing that the Initiative does. I believe that would work out well. If the people voted 60/40 what kind of office holder would stand up to that ? In Arizona I suspect it would be much closer because a recent proposition limiting federal power barely passed.

[Nateman]

I live near central Phoenix. Would I have to move to Gilbert/Queen Creek to run against MR BIG?

[Publius]

It has to come from a state legislature, not an initiative or referendum. Something similar to this was litigated in 1920, and the Court decided on the basis of the actual words of the Constitution.

[Jacquerie]

More than thirty four states have made application for an amendments convention. Congress is duty bound to call for one. I'm amazed that Mark Levin hasn't shouted this across the airwaves. Perhaps he'll get to it on Dec 4th when he addresses the American Legislative Exchange Council. With 66 of 99 state houses in GOP hands, there is no better time to strike.

[C210N]

Can’t live with them....

sure could live without them