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To: vladimir998
You know, if Russia really wanted chunks of Ukraine they'd already be sitting on it. Russia taking over parts of East Ukraine is the fondest hope of the people in Kiev. It solves a lot of their problems and reduces the number of people who vote for others. The people in Kiev are far more anxious to get rid of parts of Ukraine than Russia is to have them.

You're usually a level haded guy and I give serious consideration to what you say but somethings blinded you to half the situation in this case. Soviets, Nazis, Right Sector, "little green men", every bit of that is part of one smokescreen or another.

The real issue, behind the smoke, is that the people who took over do not have and have done nothing to earn the trust of a large percentage of the population. So far, in fact, they've all but begged Russia to roll in and now they're using the Army in a way that generates the most possible anger. They roll in, shoot the place up, roll out.

That chit didn't work in VN, it never works. You have to leave people in the towns, people who are fair and who play by the rules they announce, not show up, blow up, and move on. There are US people in Kiev, they know that approach doesn't work if the goal is to regain control instead of to generate anger. So, what's the goal that fits the reality that's unfolding?

IMHO, goal number one has been to not count the votes from a number of regions in the East, especially the Southeast. Goal number two, was to if possible goad Putin into taking enough of the Southeast to keep it permanently off the voting rolls in Ukraine no matter who comes in as peacekeepers or to monitor elections in the future. Beyond those two there may be a desire to frighten "ethnic Russians" into leaving the country, maybe or maybe not. The overriding goal, though, is to be the ones controlling the corruption they have no intention of ending.

What other goals fit with what Kiev has been doing as opposed to the smoke it's blowing?

84 posted on 05/10/2014 11:07:39 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

“You know, if Russia really wanted chunks of Ukraine they’d already be sitting on it.”

Like Crimea?

Do you even think before you post?


90 posted on 05/10/2014 11:24:26 AM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Rashputin
re: goals of Kiev

I assumed that the temporary gov was inept beyond comprehension. But you bring up an interesting hypothesis.

What about the IMF money, given to a gov that probably didn't have the authority to put Ukraine in debt? There's at the very least some question if it's a legitimate government. What about Ukraine's gold and other assets? Is the real interest keeping all of that for those now in power? If they can't be voted out or there isn't an election, what are the odds of the people of Ukraine ever seeing that wealth again?

I'm reading this thread in morbid fascination. So many US citizens fought in WWII, proudly, for one reason....to stop Hitler. Defending Nazis doesn't play real well in the US. What's the point of that?

103 posted on 05/10/2014 12:02:16 PM PDT by grania
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