Posted on 05/10/2014 9:17:20 AM PDT by tcrlaf
Addressing the public on a Victory Day, the governor of Ukraine’s southern Kherson region trampled on the feelings of many veterans and desecrated the memory of all those who perished during the war against Nazi Germany by calling Hitler a “liberator.”
Governor of Kherson region Yuri Odarchenko was booed by thousands including WWII veterans when he told the previously cheering crowd that the Soviet Union tried to enslave Ukraine, while Hitler on the other hand tried to bring freedom to their land.
“Those [Soviet] aggressors justified their capture not only by their desire to seize others' territory and enslave the people, but they also put forward slogans about liberating nations and people that inhabit the lands which Hitler hoped to capture,” Odarchenko told the crowd.
Painting his version of the events further, he challenged history by saying that “if you read history books, we have a number of documentaries on this, then we see that he [Hitler] first of all put forward a slogan of liberating people from the communist yoke, and liberating people from the tyrant Stalin,” Odarchenko said, sparking anger and outraged by the crowd.
As thousands yelled out “shame”, a young woman with a child approached the governor, stripped him of the microphone, before throwing it away.
(Excerpt) Read more at rt.com ...
“You paint this as a “Russia-Ukraine” thing.”
Oh, my. There are Russians and Ukrainians. It is Russia and Ukraine. It IS a Russia-Ukraine thing. That doesn’t mean no one else is involved, but if there were no Russia or Ukraine we wouldn’t be having this conversation.
“What about all those people who simply don’t support what happened in Kiev?”
What about them?
“Should they be hunted down and “killed like dogs!”, as several ID’s have said of FR?”
How many exactly are being hunted down like dogs? Give me the number. 1? 2? 16? And while you’re at Propaganda Tool, tell me why they “don’t support what happened in Kiev” because if it turns put that they want to sell out Ukraine to the Russians, then I can’t help but think they were traitors just like we would think of people who wanted to sell us out to a foreign country.
I work with a Jewish female who was originally from Odessa. She is still in touch with her family and friends there. She says that the Nazis in Ukraine thing is a bunch of exaggerated Putin propaganda.
Your percentages are greatly exaggerated.
LOL..
So Twitter is “an evil Russian plot!” now?
We know that EuroMaidan is running a large “internet opinioneering” operation, just like OFA did.
The Maidan trolls have run off most legit conversation about events in Russia/Ukraine. Most people don’t want to be bothered by the hate you spew, so they abstain from commenting.
I have no fear of being called childish names, I have thick skin, and I think knowing what Russia’s Officials are saying about events is important to making an INFORMED opinion.
In addition, I have asked the Maidan trolls MANY times to direct me to an English Language source they approve of, that is posting about events in near-real time.
Funny, but you, and the “others” can’t seem to come up with one. Funny that....
While you scream “propaganda!!”, you post MaidanPR crap. like “the coup isn’t actually a coup, despite the coup!” unfiltered.
Grow up, will ya?
You're usually a level haded guy and I give serious consideration to what you say but somethings blinded you to half the situation in this case. Soviets, Nazis, Right Sector, "little green men", every bit of that is part of one smokescreen or another.
The real issue, behind the smoke, is that the people who took over do not have and have done nothing to earn the trust of a large percentage of the population. So far, in fact, they've all but begged Russia to roll in and now they're using the Army in a way that generates the most possible anger. They roll in, shoot the place up, roll out.
That chit didn't work in VN, it never works. You have to leave people in the towns, people who are fair and who play by the rules they announce, not show up, blow up, and move on. There are US people in Kiev, they know that approach doesn't work if the goal is to regain control instead of to generate anger. So, what's the goal that fits the reality that's unfolding?
IMHO, goal number one has been to not count the votes from a number of regions in the East, especially the Southeast. Goal number two, was to if possible goad Putin into taking enough of the Southeast to keep it permanently off the voting rolls in Ukraine no matter who comes in as peacekeepers or to monitor elections in the future. Beyond those two there may be a desire to frighten "ethnic Russians" into leaving the country, maybe or maybe not. The overriding goal, though, is to be the ones controlling the corruption they have no intention of ending.
What other goals fit with what Kiev has been doing as opposed to the smoke it's blowing?
I don't care what their excuse for joining the SS and Nazis was just like I don't care about the family history that had five of my great uncles in German uniforms during WWII after going back to Germany because there were no jobs here. They stayed when Hitler came to power and they had a chance to come back to the US. They were wrong, and I the two that survived as much as my own father and like them more. They were still dead wrong.
Ukraine wants to be a free country
The ones that took control in Kiev, want a fascist country and that nut praising Hitler is proof.
In the last 30 years Russia has remarkably changed for the better. I know that's hard for you to accept, but it's undeniable.
The fascist Ukes have not, by holding their stupid parade, and sticking it to the Russians every chance they could for the last 30 years.
"Today, celebrating Victory Day, we remember those turbulent events that occurred during the Great Patriotic War. We remember when they fought against the aggressors [Hitler] who tried to seize the land. Those aggressors [Hitler] motivated their desire to capture not only to seize the land and enslave people, but they also put forward the slogans of liberation to a nation of people who lived on land that Hitler tried to seize.
If you read history, we see that he [Hitler], he first put forward the slogan - the liberation of people from the Communist yoke, to deliver people from the tyrant Stalin. But people are united in their desire to defend their native Ukraine, and presented a united front, showing him that people can and will win back its territory. Today, the same thing happens on the borders of Ukraine."
The aggressors he was speaking of was not the Soviets, but Hitler. The first line and second lines, omitted by RT, clearly show that he was talking about Hitler, due to his calling it the 'Great Patriotic War' and he talks about the aggressors 'who tried to seize the land'. Ukraine was already part of the Soviet Union at the time, so obviously the aggressor spoken of in this context is Hitler. RT spins 'aggressors' as meaning 'Soviet'.
And he then says in the third line, that Hitler was the aggressor who tried to seize the land and enslave people, before saying he also used liberation slogans just as the tyrant Stalin did, making a direct comparison between Hitler and Stalin.
Then he continues with we must get back our territory and present a united front, just as we tried doing back in WWII. So it is the comparison of Stalin as Hitler, and Putin being the same as Stalin and Hitler that sets the Communists and Red Army veterans off.
And I got (translated) Russian-language sources aplenty to back up this version of the translation, including some quasi-independent Kremlin media outlets:
1)Visti
3)MIR 24
“We know that EuroMaidan is running a large “internet opinioneering” operation, just like OFA did.”
You know, it amazes me that you can’t even see what you’re doing. Or maybe you do see it and you’re just dishonest? You are running a propaganda operation here at FR. You’re not alone in doing it, but you’re doing it. I don’t doubt that Maidan is getting its own propaganda out. But if you think - even for a single second - that the pro-Russian effort doesn’t dwarf the pro-Ukraine effort you are out of your mind.
“The Maidan trolls have run off most legit conversation about events in Russia/Ukraine.”
I really don’t care about Maidan and never heard of them until a matter of months ago. I believe the Ukrainians should decide the fate of their own country. I also believe the Russians should decide the fate of their own country. In this matter the pro-Russian side is wrong.
“Most people don’t want to be bothered by the hate you spew, so they abstain from commenting.”
The truth is not hateful. If you’re a propaganda tool, a stooge then you are. And you are.
“I have no fear of being called childish names, I have thick skin, and I think knowing what Russia’s Officials are saying about events is important to making an INFORMED opinion.”
I do too. I just don’t stop there. And please tell me how a blogger’s video on youtube - which you say you did not get at Russia Today (like other posts of yours) in any way represents “what Russia’s Officials are saying”? Again, I don’t even think you believe your own BS.
“In addition, I have asked the Maidan trolls MANY times to direct me to an English Language source they approve of, that is posting about events in near-real time.”
Well, first of all, I don’t recall you asking me that but what if you did? Also, why is it that you are interested in that when you say “EuroMaidan is running a large “internet opinioneering” operation”? Again, I don’t think you even believe in your own BS.
“Funny, but you, and the “others” can’t seem to come up with one. Funny that....”
Uh, again, I don’t recall you asking me that but what if you did? Wouldn’t that just show the following:
1) we’re not Maidan trolls
2) Maidan does NOT have nearly as many media outlets as the Russians do?
Again, I don’t think you even believe in your own BS. If you did you would not contradict yourself again and again.
“While you scream “propaganda!!”, you post MaidanPR crap.”
No. I have posted few links. Some may have come from Maidan over the last few months, but none of it was crap.
“like “the coup isn’t actually a coup, despite the coup!” unfiltered.”
Except that your own chosen and preferred definition of “coup” proves it wasn’t a coup. Seriously, you have really embarrassed yourself in this thread.
“Grow up, will ya?”
Learn to read, will ya’?
WTF? The Gadsden "Don't Tread On Me" flag was one of the flags the patriots used in the American Revolution.
Why would it be banned for historical reasons?
Coupling it with the Confederate flag is bad enough, but grouping it with the red hammer and sickle flag is contemptable.
“You know, if Russia really wanted chunks of Ukraine they’d already be sitting on it.”
Like Crimea?
Do you even think before you post?
“NO, you’re missing the point, the point that wrong is wrong is wrong is wrong.”
Your armchair is really comfortable isn’t it?
“They were still dead wrong.”
Yep, hindsight in a really comfortable armchair is really worthwhile. Strange how it isn’t so obvious to those who were oppressed for more than 2 decades, had 2,000,000 of their fellow citizens murdered, etc.
I know all about the doing the killing and dying up close and personal.
As I understand it, the Nazis were seen as liberators by the Ukrainians and for good reason. Not sure if the Nazis treated them any better or if their wrath was reserved only for the Ukrainian Jews, but I can understand why Ukrainians would see it this way.
Yeah, because then the Ukrainians were “liberated” to start killing Poles and Jews.
Seems like killing Jews was a hobby for most of Europe in those days.
“But the law was everybody had to share and share alike and when you don’t follow the law you normally suffer.”
Since that wasn’t a legitimate law and it certainly was never a law agreed to by the Ukrainians it really doesn’t matter what the law said. If Obama pushed a law through congress calling for collectivization would you just sheepishly say, “But the law was everybody had to share and share alike and when you don’t follow the law you normally suffer”?
Why would you deny the Ukrainians the same freedoms you would never deny yourself?
“The ones that took control in Kiev, want a fascist country and that nut praising Hitler is proof.”
He isn’t praising Hitler - and the quotes in the article make it clear what he actually was doing. And second, Ukraine is not a fascist country and isn’t going to become one. Russia is more fascist - and has vastly more fascists in it - than Ukraine as a matter of fact.
“In the last 30 years Russia has remarkably changed for the better.”
Absolutely. It went from:
- a stupid communist, oppressive police state overrun with KGB agents, gulags and Cossacks to
- a mildly dumb, crony capitalist oligarchist, mildly oppressive state overrun with rabid nationalists, Cossacks, National Socialists, and Communists
Yep, definitely a vast improvement. I’m not even being sarcastic.
“I know that’s hard for you to accept, but it’s undeniable.”
I don’t deny it. I also don’t sugar coat it.
“The fascist Ukes have not, by holding their stupid parade, and sticking it to the Russians every chance they could for the last 30 years.”
Resentment is a natural result of oppression. The Ukrainians will get over it eventually. It doesn’t help that the Russians have seized part of Ukraine, however. How pissed off would be if S. California held a referendum and Mexico occupied it afterward?
“I sure do, they wanted Crimea and they took it.”
But you just intimated they didn’t do that. You said, “You know, if Russia really wanted chunks of Ukraine they’d already be sitting on it.” Well, they did exactly that. So, your intimation was incorrect.
“If they wanted more they’d have it, that’s the point,”
No. Crimea is one thing. Other chunks of Ukraine are a somewhat different matter in how they have to be carved away for Russia. Do you really not know that?
“the turmoil the Kiev Kiddies cause is the problem, not Russia.”
Really? And exactly what “turmoil” did the “Kiev Kiddies” cause in Crimea by protesting in Kiev? Oh, that’s right, none really - except that ginned up by pro-Russian propaganda.
“Not Soviets. Not Nazis, not any of the other noise and smoke.”
Just Russians and Ukrainians. That’s exactly what I’m saying.
“Screw you and the horse you rode in on.”
I didn’t know you liked animals that way. I’ll keep pets away from you and I will just lean up with my back to the wall for my own protection from now on. Thanks for the heads up.
“I spent time as a grunt right up until they carried me out unconscious.”
Thank you for your service. Unless it was in Ukraine - and it wasn’t - it plays no role here whatsoever.
“I know all about the doing the killing and dying up close and personal.”
Great. So, if I have any questions about “the doing the killing and dying up close and personal”, I’ll ask you. If I want to know about the problems between Russian and Ukraine, I have no reason to take you seriously as a source of information, intelligence, or reason. Got it, thanks.
“As I understand it, the Nazis were seen as liberators by the Ukrainians and for good reason. Not sure if the Nazis treated them any better or if their wrath was reserved only for the Ukrainian Jews, but I can understand why Ukrainians would see it this way.”
You already understand a lot more than many other FReepers!
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.