Posted on 03/13/2014 7:42:46 PM PDT by DogByte6RER
Gun store owner refuses to give feds customer list
OCEANSIDE, Calif. – The owner of an Oceanside store that sells various gun parts to build a rifle from scratch refused to turn over his customer list to federal agents.
Dimitrios Karras, owner of Ares Armor, said the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives agents were investigating their business, not for what they sell, but for the people who purchase their products.
Karras said the ATF threatened to shutter their business if they didn’t hand over the names of 5,000 customers who have purchased an 80 percent lower receiver (the base) for building an AR-15.
It is legal to build a rifle from scratch without serial numbers only if the base is manufactured to ATF specifications. The base is not considered a firearm if it’s sold separately.
(Excerpt) Read more at fox5sandiego.com ...
We all know this. The ATF doesn’t like others to know this.
It’s sorta how they work. Intimidation.
I keep wondering if DHS and local cops are willing to die on orders from an illegal alien with 7 stolen SSNs and a forged Hawaii birth certificate.
In any civil war, this whole ‘gun registration’ crap lasts approx 2 weeks until enough Brownshirts get killed and citizens take THEIR guns off the dead bodies.
At that point, tracing the typical M4 used by the Resistance only leads back to DHS or whoever issued the gun to their rank-and-file Brownshirt.
The danger of registration is the islamo-commie illegitimate govt grabbing the guns BEFORE full-on
war breaks out.
“they had a list of specific customers they were asking about.”
NSA at its best!
And the specific customers were doing nothing wrong. But they just wanted to talk to (ie. intimidate) them.
Somewhere, there are instructions for making a gun out of a shovel. I sometimes like to wonder how many federal heads exploded when they first saw that?
Oh, look, I found it but the pictures won’t show. http://www.northeastshooters.com/vbulletin/threads/179192-DIY-Shovel-AK-photo-tsunami-warning!
You got it right. The headline on this is totally bogus.
Yet still not accurate. ;)
As I’ve read/heard it it, you can sell it, but you have to serialize it at that time and then run it through the 4473/DROS process.
80%’s sales will probably go through the roof here. I think most of the sellers also sell templates for easy machining out of the remaining metal and with the Jan 1st rules for long gun registry with purchase it’s probably the last best way in CA to have an off record LBR. Prior to this you went through DROS/BG Check process, but they didn’t record the type of long gun (just rifle or shotgun IIRC)
The solid fire-control cavity is built first and the rest of the 80% casting is made around this “core” specifically so that their product at no time could be considered to be a firearm.
HA! That is genius, and probably why that particular 80% lower pisses them off so much. If the polymer fire control cavity is made first with a different color polymer the final casting can probably be subsequently cored out with merely something like a dremel tool or a drill and fine files. The operator merely needs to stop at the show-through of color from the outer casting and fine work that so the subsequently installed parts work smoothly. Damn, now I want to get one just to check it out!
Exactly.
That’s it in a nutshell.
This is some serious Sh!t.
ATF visited me after registering my LLC as a machine shop. They “heard” I was making guns. I never have and it is quite ironic they showed up a few days after.
Besides the legal requirement to keep records of firearms sales, why don’t these guys shred their records? There is no law I know of requiring me to keep records of my customers. Fill the order, then destroy the record and shipping address.
Ref “impeachment: “....have the Senate decide on Removal.”.....
“Houston, we have a problem”
2nd ping thanks for posting
the FEDS will simply look at their credit card transaction for certain dollar amounts through compliant banks
Yep - all the "promises" that applications for purchase aren't saved/entered into databases are worth the words that come out of Obama's mouth - they are relentless and we wait for the shears....
Everybody needs to start growing steel wool.
Sounds like they did not get a “determination letter” from the BATF before they started selling them. Big mistake. Several other manufacturers sell their own 80% lower with a copy of the letter from the BATF specifically saying that this 80% lower has been determined by the BATF to be a non-gun. I have read from the manufacturers that they often have to change some small item on their 80% receiver in order what they sell in order to get that letter.
It looks like the company did not bother to have the lower reviewed. They decided themselves that it was no different from other 80% lowers. That is a pretty weak from a legal standpoint. I wish them luck, but several other 80% lower manufacturers have been put out of business by the BATF and I expect no different here. Just the cost of keeping out of jail breaks most of them that have been raided.
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