THE BIBLE'S AGE FOR THE EARTH

CreationMoments ^ | Feb 7, 2014 | CreationMoments et al

[fwdude]

Genesis 1:1
“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”

Just when was the “beginning” when God created the heavens and the earth, as spoken of in Genesis 1:1? In these days when scientists talk about “billions” of years, the question of what the Bible says on the matter of origins becomes even more important.

Few people doubt that the Bible intends to teach that the creation is young. The genealogies of the Old Testament are actual reproductions of the calendar system used in most ancient times.

While the subject is very complicated, we can share with you the calculations done by some well-known Christians. You are probably familiar with Bishop Ussher’s calculation that creation took place in 4004 B.C. But did you know that no less than the great scientist Kepler calculated that creation took place in 3877? Martin Luther calculated that creation took place in 3961 B.C. The very oldest ages arrived at through calculations based on Scripture say the creation is about 7,500 years old.

For the Christian, the question of the age of the creation can only be answered on the basis of Scripture. There is no question that Scripture gives us more than enough information to conclude that the creation is young and that God wants us to know it. After that, it is simply a matter of whether we accept Scripture’s authority.

Prayer:
Dear Heavenly Father, help my thinking not to be conformed to this world, but help me to be transformed by Your renewing of my mind so that my faith in Your clear Word is unshakable. In Jesus’ Name. Amen.

Notes:
Painting: Archbishop James Ussher, painted by Peter Lely (1618–1680).

[jimmyray]

An honest seeking of knowledge, here. In Exodus 20:11, it states God "made" the heavens, the earth, the sea and all that in them is. What is the Hebrew word for "made", and how does that compare with the word you referenced above,e.g. bārā’? How do you fit the gap into Exodus 20:11?

[Hostage]

Are you a moron or do you just play one on FR?

Jesus is God.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Jimmy Ray, I just shut my computer linguistic tools down. Your question though assumes god revealed the identical thing in both places. Each has a purpose where it appears.

I would add before checking the Hebrew usage in Exodus, that we agree that God made all that. Tomorrow I’ll check your question. We’re watching Sochi right now. :-)

[jimmyray]

QUOTE: Are you a moron or do you just play one on FR?

Ah, resorting to ad hominem attacks, eh? Just clarifying and correcting your erroneous, or perhaps unclear, posts. Just for fun, show me one verse that says belief in God gives on access to eternal life, and I will show you 50 that call out the name of Jesus. You should be careful to name the god/God you are claiming one has to believe in, for the world is full of false gods and false christs. To wit:

Acts 4:11-12 Jesus is “ ‘the stone you builders rejected, which has become the cornerstone.’ Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to mankind by which we must be saved.”

Romans 10:9 If you declare with your mouth, “Jesus is Lord,” and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Philippians 2:10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,

Thanks for giving me the opportunity to clarify that Jesus is LORD, because belief in God is simply not enough for salvation!

[Hostage]

Jesus and God are interchangeable, they are one and the same.

John 3:16 says that believing (also translated as trusting) in Jesus=God brings life everlasting=immortality=no death.

Jesus was promised to Adam after Adam fell for Satan’s deception. Adam is now saved; he is immortal again.

Adam WAS immortal, became mortal and is immortal again. When he was in the Garden Adam WAS immortal and years of age would be of no consequence to him. We do not know how many years Adam was in the Garden as an immortal being. We are told he lived 930 years after he lost his immortality.

Take your petty arguments elsewhere. I am done with it. Do not bother me here again.

[RaceBannon]

I dont care about J Vernon McGee

I care what the scriptures plainly teach

you never seem to think that Joshua marched for 7000 days around Jerico, do you?

Did Jesus fast 40,000 years in the desert to be tempted by Satan?

but you insist on creation being millions of years ago

You have a problem with what God said

[Seven_0]

I care what the scriptures plainly teach

Prov 25:2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.

Do you think that there are things concealed in scripture?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

There is nothing more immovable than a mind that only has one idea.

I’ve graciously gone out of my way to have a real conversation with you. I do not believe you are ready yet for such a conversation. I wish you the best.

Good luck and God speed.

[RaceBannon]

And there is no greater error than to deny what is plainly said to distort it to one other thing

Ex 20:11 For [in] six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them [is], and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

[RaceBannon]

Do you think that most things are plain and obvious?

Such as the literal 6 day creation that even the unsaved world knows the Bible teaches...yet “Christians” deny it says such things that even the heathen know it says??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmgs4a-Gbrc

[aMorePerfectUnion]

"And there is no greater error than to deny what is plainly said to distort it to one other thing"

Oh, you are wrong there.

There is no greater error than to fail in what God has commanded you:

2 Timothy 2:15

15 Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, accurately handling the word of truth.

Matthew 22:36-40

36 “Teacher, which is the great commandment in the Law?” 37 And He said to him, “‘You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind.’ 38 This is the great and [a]foremost commandment.

These you have failed to do repeatedly, even when presented with an open door to God's actual inspired Hebrew words. Even with simple explanations. You could have taken it from there, instead of just relying on the see and say method, which can tell you what something says, but not what it means. That takes effort and use of your mind, br'er. I challenge you to make a diligent effort with God's Word in order to love Him with all your mind.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

בָּרָא (bā·rā(ʾ)): v.; ≡ Str 1254; TWOT 278—1. LN 42.29–42.40 (qal) create, i.e., make something that has not been in existence before (Ge 1:1);

The Hebrew word for "created" in Genesis 1:1

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

The Hebrew word used for "made" in Exodus 20:11

עָשָׂה (ʿā·śā(h)): v.; ≡ Str 6213; TWOT 1708, 1709—1. LN 42.7–42.28 (qal) do, i.e., perform or act. out an event, highly generic, of almost any kind or manner

Swanson, J. (1997). Dictionary of Biblical Languages with Semantic Domains : Hebrew (Old Testament). Oak Harbor: Logos Research Systems, Inc.

Here is a delineation of this view that I agree with:

The clauses in verse 2 are apparently circumstantial to verse 3, telling the world’s condition when God began to renovate it. It was a chaos of wasteness, emptiness, and darkness. Such conditions would not result from God’s creative work (in verse 1 - bārā’); rather, in the Bible they are symptomatic of sin and are coordinate with judgment. Moreover, God’s Creation by decree begins in verse 3, and the elements found in verse 2 are corrected in Creation, beginning with light to dispel the darkness. The expression formless and empty (ṯōhû wāḇōhû) seems also to provide an outline for chapter 1, which describes God’s bringing shape and then fullness to the formless and empty earth.

Ross, A. P. (1985). Genesis. In J. F. Walvoord & R. B. Zuck (Eds.), The Bible Knowledge Commentary: An Exposition of the Scriptures (Vol. 1, p. 28). Wheaton, IL: Victor Books.

As such, I believe what is described by God in Genesis 1 is the original creation of matter, with something that is described as bad (in verse 2), but not fully described as why it was bad.

The following verses, from verse 3 onward, describe - IN 6 LITERAL DAYS - the process of creation by which God describes how He formed what was formless and filled what was void to create the heavens and earth we know. Because He is the creator of all, He owns it all.

[RaceBannon]

As you have failed, right from the start, is to not quote Scripture, but to quote Satan himself:

EVERYTHING you have said concerning Genesis, you cast doubt on what was said, demand a hidden meaning, and refuse to accept what is plainly there:

Gen 3:1 Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field which the Lord God had made. And he said unto the woman, Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?

In each defense of YOUR doctrine, you always deny what it plainly says.

It says DAY.

It does nto say INDETERMINATE PERIOD OF TIME.

It says day. And you keep questioning what God said.

YEA, HATH GOD SAID...

Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and [from] the things which are written in this book.

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Dear FRiend, and I assume br’er in Christ,

I started out assuming you are reasonably intelligent and capable of thought. I’d still like to think so, but you are apparently not exercising that capability in your posts.

For this reason, I’ve already wished you well twice. Go and be blessed. There is nothing anyone can say to you. Your future is in your hands.

Kindest wishes,
ampu

[RaceBannon]

There is nothing to debate, really

you keep spouting off what you think is sound learning, when in reality, all you are doing is calling God a liar.

you need no deep thought out rebuttal.

What you need to do is repent of this sin and believe the bible.

You have shown me that you pick and choose what to believe as you choose.

What does my tag line say?

[aMorePerfectUnion]

Nothing I could say would help you understand how meaning in an English translation is governed by actual Hebrew words, grammar, and sentence structure - the very elements that are inspired by God.

Perhaps you see the English word alone and assume God just dropped the English word from heaven. Perhaps you assume just one English translation is inspired. It does not happen that way.

God has each of us on His timetable. I wish you the very best.

[RaceBannon]

and apparently nothing is convincing you to actually believe what it plainly says, and to see that your twisting of words and syntax would not apply to any other use of the word day that has the modifier of a number in the description of that day

but I’ll post the link anyways, you really need to fall on your face and repent of this error

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dmgs4a-Gbrc

[Seven_0]

Do you think that most things are plain and obvious?

I think most things in scripture are not plain and obvious. I have searched them for many years now and I feel I have just scratched the surface. It is a very big book.

Josh 13:1 Now Joshua was old and stricken in years; and the LORD said unto him, Thou art old and stricken in years, and there remaineth yet very much land to be possessed.

Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

This verse seems to distinguish between created and made. Genesis 1 uses "created" on the first, fifth and sixth day. We can discuss the difference created and made if you like but here is my question; what day was Satan created?

[RaceBannon]

No idea
The same day as the rest of the angels, sounds the most logical
But it sounds like a meaningless question in the long run, I wouldn’t worry about it